Decision Time

[overlander]

Hi guys,

What a fantastic forum, and a mine of information but there is one aspect that does not seem to be covered, excuse me if it has.

Was out on Friday/Saturday testing e-bikes and finally have narrowed it down to two bikes. As you will know from my previous post, as i hit forty my weight has crept up, now i am still a fit cyclist. Until i got my knee injury i was happily cycling my commute to work and could easily cover 40-50 miles a day. But since the injury(docs says possibly a year until completely healed). Since stopping my cycling my weight has crept up at an alarming rate, now i eat like a sparrow but i do admit i could eat healthier. So to the point i love cycling do not want to give up my commute/leisure cycling. So the e-bike was the perfect solution on paper.

But in my mind i was slightly embarrassed about using an e-bike at my age, but it was not until i went for a test ride i realised i was really embarrassed about using an e-bike. Especially the nosier ones people would have a good gawp. When i was in the shops mainly the customers were at least 25-30 years older than me.

So am i just being silly, never thought this would be an issue but as purchase day arrives it really is an issue.

PS

Forgot to add just been out on my Dawes Galaxy this morning and covered 19 miles and back home now my knee is killing me. Will need to take it easy today, i just had to try out before i took the plunge. I know i am being silly but would just be good to get some other views.

Thanks

 

[Vikki]

I suppose the question is what is more important to you, your embarrassment or the ability to continue enjoying your cycling. Will 'ebiker's smile' compensate?

You could always stick a picture on the back of the bike with a crying knee on it

I think it wouldn't bother me if it gave me my cycling freedom back.

Best regards.

Vikki.

 

[WALKERMAN]

Hi guys,

What a fantastic forum, and a mine of information but there is one aspect that does not seem to be covered, excuse me if it has.

Was out on Friday/Saturday testing e-bikes and finally have narrowed it down to two bikes. As you will know from my previous post, as i hit forty my weight has crept up, now i am still a fit cyclist. Until i got my knee injury i was happily cycling my commute to work and could easily cover 40-50 miles a day. But since the injury(docs says possibly a year until completely healed). Since stopping my cycling my weight has crept up at an alarming rate, now i eat like a sparrow but i do admit i could eat healthier. So to the point i love cycling do not want to give up my commute/leisure cycling. So the e-bike was the perfect solution on paper.

But in my mind i was slightly embarrassed about using an e-bike at my age, but it was not until i went for a test ride i realised i was really embarrassed about using an e-bike. Especially the nosier ones people would have a good gawp. When i was in the shops mainly the customers were at least 25-30 years older than me.

So am i just being silly, never thought this would be an issue but as purchase day arrives it really is an issue.

PS

Forgot to add just been out on my Dawes Galaxy this morning and covered 19 miles and back home now my knee is killing me. Will need to take it easy today, i just had to try out before i took the plunge. I know i am being silly but would just be good to get some other views.

Thanks

I've cycled past kids when out on my Proconnect and heard them say "that's an electric bike" so I think they are aware of them and some do think they are 'cool' The problem for the younger generation getting an ebike is the high price otherwise there would be more using them!

 

[flecc]

Even teenagers often think e-bikes cool, and the many who've begged rides on mine clearly indicate that.

Most modern e-bikes are fairly quiet, some almost completely silent, so don't be put off by the noisy ones like Powabyke, Currie and Heinzmann.

Try a Panasonic unit powered bike or a Cytronex for example, and enjoy no more noise than a normal bicycle chain makes.
.

 

[overlander]

I think thats what took me by surprise was just how easy it was to tell that it was an e-bike. I thought they would be harder to spot, and i reckon they are fantastic for people like myself and the older person who wants to get out there and who cannot be bothered/able to cope with the hills.

My plan was to use a heavily assisted bike at first until after Christmas then buy a Cytronex, hopefully by then i would be able to go back out with the bike club at the weekend. As i say i was just taken back by just how easy it was to spot.

 

[overlander]

Hi flecc,

The two bikes i am down to are the Alien Aurora and the Kalkhoff Agattu. I have not had a chance to try the Kalkhoff Agattu or any panasonic unit out. I nearly had a chance to try a very small 50Cm Raleigh Dover out but in this case i will have to buy blind. But from the reviews on here i reckon its a fine bike.

 

[Vikki]

Kalkhoff bikes do require pedal input because the motor multiplies your pedal input according to its power settings. At 50% you would be supplying 50% of the input. There are higher settings like 150% I admit to not knowing if they go to 200% now or not but a Kalkhoff owner will tell us

Basically, they make you feel bionic

At this time that required input might not suit your knee. You wouldn't want to jeopardise its healing.

As far as I am aware there is no 'power on demand' - meaning no breather by holding a throttle open.

Best regards.

Vikki.

 

[Mussels]

Hi flecc,

The two bikes i am down to are the Alien Aurora and the Kalkhoff Agattu. I have not had a chance to try the Kalkhoff Agattu or any panasonic unit out. I nearly had a chance to try a very small 50Cm Raleigh Dover out but in this case i will have to buy blind. But from the reviews on here i reckon its a fine bike.

As you are a keen cyclist I'd strongly recommend a test ride as different bikes need different riding techniques, you might hate the one you choose because it feels wrong.
I see lots of strong cyclists on my commute into central London and most are very interested in the electric bike, especially when they find out I commute from the M25. The only bad remarks have been from people who don't or hardly cycle.

 

[eddieo]

There is a wisper 905SE on ebay, you could run this for a year, then get your Cytonex, sell the wisper and be no more then £100 or so out of pocket. A cheap introduction to e biking (it is what I did)

I had a knee op in 2004 and it has never been right since, an e bikes makes all the difference. Have never had nothing but interest from others when out and about including youngsters who are probably even more interested. I think this image thing is probably in your own head being a keen cyclist.....once the power kicks in, you will learn to love it and wont give a to$$

E Motion make very nice Panasonic bikes. some light sporty models as well...your cycle club would probably hardly notice.....Although I would not buy a Panasonic bike blind

most of us manage very well riding within the constraints of the law riding 250 watt bikes

 

[overlander]

Hi mussels,

Yes that is one other point it was hard to pin down at first but once i got over the novelty of the motor it became clear that the bike was not designed for a higher cadence. I normally try and keep it above 100 but no way could i do this on the Alien. They really are different beasts.

Vikki,

Yes that was the reason i looked at the alien, it had a throttle and more importantly a bigger frame. But hopefully all going well the throttle would get very little use if i went down that road.

 

[flecc]

Definitely test rides are essential, and with a knee problem it's very important to try the Panasonic unit first before buying.

The Panasonic power modes are:

On Eco the unit puts in half the effort you provide, so 0.5 to 1 ratio.

On Standard mode the unit exactly matches your input, so 1 to 1 ratio.

High power mode varies by make:

Older Kalkhoff standard models, 1.3 times your input, the "S" high speed model 1.5 times.

Current Kalkhoff standard models, 1.5 times your input, "S" model 2 times.

These figures vary for other makes using the units, each bike manufacturer specifying according to their range/power priorities.
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[overlander]

Since the knee problem my cadence has dropped to an average of 65. To be 100% honest its been falling for the last few years. I really need to get back into this soon, from a health point of view the quicker the better.

But i am getting concerned that everyone is recommending a test ride on the Panasonic bikes! My understanding is they are the best of the best, you just need to be prepared to cycle. I do have my doubts about my knee but i reckon with assistance it should be ok. My plan was to use on high power then step down as my knee got better and the weight came off again. The problem is i live in the Glasgow area and no one i know stocks the Kalkhoffs/or any other Panasonic powered bike. Are they really low on assistance?

 

[eddieo]

The wisper e bike kit "DaaHub" is due in September? You could always just fit one of these to your Dawes........

 

[overlander]

Hi eddieo,

Too long out i really want on the bike this week or next week. But i recon these kits are the future of e-bikes, to get serious cyclist(i,e sporting injuries getting back into form etc) into them they really need to fit existing bikes. That way when the goal is achieved you can take them of and transfer them etc. The choice of frames on e-bikes is too limited, but on saying that much better than a year ago. For me personally the Cytronex bikes fit the bill for me but got a lot of work to do before buying one

 

[eddieo]

In that case...try ANY panasonic bike to see if you get on with the sytem (debatable IMO). And go for something like HarryB went for, one of the very nice looking e motion's


BH Emotion Sport Deluxe Electric Bike

BH Emotion Sport Max + Electric Bike

 

[flecc]

The problem is i live in the Glasgow area and no one i know stocks the Kalkhoffs/or any other Panasonic powered bike. Are they really low on assistance?

It's complex.

It's the dependence on your input that is the concern. They are perfectly capable of maximum power outputs of 400 watts like many mainstream bikes, but to get that 400 watts you need to put in 400 watts in standard mode making 800 watts in total. That's not as bad as it looks though, to match a 400 watt peak hub motor you'd need to put in 200 watts in standard mode to have that matched, while the hub motor bike doesn't demand you put in anything to get the 400 watts when running at optimum speed.

However, the hub motor suffers a drop in output at lower speeds when hill climbing so it demands your help then, and that help can be greater on the steepest hills. The Panasonic drives through your bike gears so changing down allows the optimum power to be available all the time. On the very steepest hills where the hub motor really struggles, the Panasonic comes into it's own.

These issues and some others makes it so complex that only a personal trial can show if you are suited or not. Most fit people are suited and many greatly prefer it, but a few equally detest the system. Considering the purchase price, it's worth spending time and some money to travel and try one out.
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[overlander]

The most important factor for me is the hill climbing, my knee has real problems on the hills. I feel that the hills hurt the knee infinitely more that the level ground regardless of speed. That is why the e-bike is the perfect solution.

One question that springs to mind is the input that the motor assists you stepped with speed being the variable. It would not be very good if you were putting in 400 Watts when you hit a hill but manage to keep the speed above 15 mph and the motor gives no assistance. Or is it the case the moment you drop below 15 mph the motor starts to assist again at full power. What i am getting at is what is the maximum speed where the motor will give full assist, if this is too low then yes i could foresee a problem.

To anyone who does not get on with the Panasonic system, what have been your issues?

 

[flecc]

Maximum power in top gear on a standard Panasonic motored bike is at 9.4 mph and a cadence of 40. After that it gradually slopes off to end at zero at 15 mph. By changing the rear sprocket on a hub gear model to one with less teeth, that maximum power point is raised. An Agattu with the 22 tooth sprocket changed to 18 teeth lifts the maximum power slope off point to 11.5 mph, a 16 tooth raise it to almost 13 mph. However, these raise the gears so your bottom gear ends up higher than before, ok for average hills but not good in very steep hill areas.

Much depends on how steep your hills really are. Most think their own area hills are steep, but most aren't, only a few areas have the truly steep hills that are 1 in 7 and steeper. Even if there are a few steep ones, they can often be avoided by different route choices.

See my full explanation in the technical section on how the Panasonic system delivers to understand the complete picture.
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[Mussels]

Have you tried a Cytronex bike? You might find it's the ideal bike for you now.

 

[badpoet]

I bought the cross deluxe e-motion as I wanted something more bike like to get me back into it after many years not cycling (I am 36this year).

I really fancied a cytronex but range put me off for the time being, check out ebay a cytronex is up for sale by the way - it's in Cornwall collect only or I would be tempted to bid! I looked at a wisper but design did put me off personally.

I am really enjoying the e-motion after 500 miles in six weeks.