developments for 2009?

[Alex728]

I was gonna reply to the "bike of the year" thread but I'm a newbie to e-bikes and TBH couldn't think of a particular 2008 model I really wanted to vote for..

so I decided to start a new thread, what developments in ebikes and the industry would you all like to see in the future?

In my case I'm not that interested in just technical innovations (other than maybe longer battery distances) - or faster bikes - my emphasis is on more good, solid, reliable machines backed up by customer service and UK-based technical support... at this time it seems the industry is "getting there" but there is room for improvement...

I'd also like to see a lot more final assembly of cycles returning to the UK in the short term and (although this is already happening) UK companies and Chinese factories working together to improve quality....

and of course more local suppliers and repairers of e-bikes, so that eventually they are as prolific as conventional cycle shops...

 

[Intex]

Flecc had mentioned a new bike for 2009 that may surpass the Kalkhoff for bike of the year. Does anyone have any info on what this new bike may be?
I dont want to be buying a new bike this month, if a better one is coming along soon.

 

[flecc]

Not quite that Intex. I said it could be a contender for the 2009 title, as will many other bikes as they are announced. I've made no comparison with Kalkhoff models.
.

 

[Cyclezee]

I have already asked Santa for this new contender, but I am worried it won't fit down my chimney Will bateries be included?

J hn

 

[flecc]

I have already asked Santa for this new contender, but I am worried it won't fit down my chimney Will bateries be included?

J hn

Santa doesn't know what it is, that information confined to the manufacturers, me, and A.N Other the other side of the world who won't be saying anything either.

I've assured Intex that it doesn't conform to what he's been looking for as stated in his threads so there's no need for him to wait for it.

No matter what we buy, there's always something else which follows immediately which may or may not have been better. The new car I bought in May was followed shortly after with a variation which I would have preferred, and I'm sure the expensive new camera I've just bought will be superceded with an upgraded model within months.

But so what, if I always waited I'd never buy anything. I prefer to just buy and enjoy things.
.

 

[JohnofCambridge]

Back to a wish list for 2009

Cheaper high density batteries would be a good result for 2009 for those with Bikes already

A government move to put the max speed up to 20mph (I wish)

Another electric rally venue, such as Presteigne, in the Autumn

If my sherry was not so plentiful I am sure I would think of more...

John

 

[flecc]

Back to a wish list for 2009

Cheaper high density batteries would be a good result for 2009 for those with Bikes already

Last Spring it was forecast in the industry that batteries would become cheaper in a couple of years, but that was before the current economic mess and the crazy exchange rates that have resulted. I'm afraid 2009 will be out of the question now and it could take until 2011 or thereabouts to see some worthwhile reductions

A government move to put the max speed up to 20mph (I wish)

We're stuck with EU law on this and that won't shift, but we are entitled under the European law on citizens rights to have the same high speed 20 mph class that Germany enjoys in addition. The problem will be to persuade our government to enact the necessary orders to allow us our rights. I rate the chances of doing that as negligible, such is the contempt our governments have for their citizens interests.

That 20 mph class has requirements to wear helmets and have third party insurance, but there is no vehicle registration or taxation.
.

 

[nigel]

I wonder if one day we will see all electric bikes with a regenerative system so know more charging up at home or work for me that would be a huge step forward Nigel.

 

[flecc]

I wonder if one day we will see all electric bikes with a regenerative system so know more charging up at home or work for me that would be a huge step forward Nigel.

There will probably be the Kalkhoff Agattu F model in 2009 Nigel, and that has a regenerating front brake system. When you have a look at the photo in the link below, you'll see that it looks as if it has a front hub motor, but that's the regenerating brake, basically a form of dynamo that slows the bike and charges the battery. Place the grey square over the front hub and you'll see it's brake lever on the enlargement.

However, regeneration can never replace charging at home since it's impossible to get as much out as was put in in the first place. At best it only extends the range.

Kalkhoff Agattu F regenerating brake model
.

 

[fishingpaul]

Anybody have any idea how much regenerative braking downhill can give back to the battery,i would guess less than 5 percent of the amount required to climb back up it.

 

[flecc]

Anybody have any idea how much regenerative braking downhill can give back to the battery,i would guess less than 5 percent of the amount required to climb back up it.

Panasonic have made great claims for their system, I think there was a mention of a 40% range extension, but I suspect in practice the truth could be much nearer to your figure Paul. So much depends on the territory and conditions of use, and skilled cyclists generally avoid use of the brakes anyway so they wouldn't recover anything to speak of

Certainly the BionX system doesn't give anything like 40% recovery and that's an overrun system which doesn't just depend on braking so it should be better. The recent regenerative system on the Giant Twist 1 and 2 bikes was so poor that it has been dropped from their latest versions, so the history of regeneration hasn't been encouraging.

However, if anyone can do better it's likely to be Panasonic with their accumulation of electronic and e-bike knowledge, so I'll await some reviews to see the findings. A to B magazine have been somewhat cynical about regeneration on e-bikes in the past, so we can be sure it will be given a stringent test by them.
.

 

[Alex728]

But so what, if I always waited I'd never buy anything. I prefer to just buy and enjoy things.
.

this is what made me decide to buy the Powacycle Salisbury (despite it being more modestly powered) - a combination of available funds, actual availability of machines and reading the reviews on here - it seems to have got a reputation as a reliable if slower workhorse - but I am still relatively young and fit so can back up the motor with my legs when required. Even this machine has made my journey into work 10 minutes faster!

My pushbikes have been either urbanised MTBs or (preferred) 700c x 28/35 wheeled tourers/hybrids, so two machines which (to me) looked most promising would be the Cytronex(?) (the one with the Trek hybrid as a base bike) and the Infineum, but they are still out of my price range / not even in stock and would have liked to see longer battery ranges from either.

Also a lot of higher priced bikes do still seem to have teething problems, and I don't have the time or a motor vehicle to keep transporting the machines back and forth to distant dealers whilst the problems are ironed out, so would rather sacrifice speed / features for reliability (like most lads I still like to go fast, but I've matured to the point where "getting there" is more important!)

 

[wotwozere]

If they think its ok everyone will be happy, try if you cannot it wont work anyway

This was one of the best development

Thx

bob

 

[Miles]

Anybody have any idea how much regenerative braking downhill can give back to the battery,i would guess less than 5 percent of the amount required to climb back up it.

Interesting thread on this, here:
Endless-sphere.com • View topic - Analysis of regen on an ebike

 

[flecc]

Interesting thread on this, here:
Endless-sphere.com • View topic - Analysis of regen on an ebike

For most of us Justin's conclusions on regeneration versus drag are wrong, simply because he is using a direct drive Golden motor, direct drive motors having inherently fairly low drag.

Most of the motors we use are internally orbital geared types which are much higher drag when used without freewheels for regeneration and the losses through drag are much higher than the power recovery. The last to show this was Giant with their Twist 1 and 2 models, the regeneration near to useless with the high drag very unpopular, prompting them to remove it from their latest versions.

Justin's previous writing does seem to have a bias for regen, and the fact that he's clearly a very fit and powerful rider also distorts the results. For average e-bike riders using geared hub motors in most circumstances, I maintain that regeneration is not worth it, losing at least as much as it gains.
.

 

[Miles]

For most of us Justin's conclusions on regeneration versus drag are wrong, simply because he is using a direct drive Golden motor, direct drive motors having inherently fairly low drag.
.

Hence my comment, here: Endless-sphere.com • View topic - Analysis of regen on an ebike

 

[flecc]

Thanks Miles, hadn't seen your comment before.

I find it odd that the ardent proponents of regeneration never seem to take into account the fact that manufacturers generally don't take advantage of it. If there was an appreciable range giving advantage for minimal cost, the manufacturers wouldn't hesitate to make use of it.
.

 

[Miles]

For me, it's something worth looking at implementing, but not as a very high priority. As hub motors aren't my thing, I have a freer hand. I certainly wouldn't sacrifice anything, other than mental effort, in order to have it

 

[flecc]

I certainly wouldn't sacrifice anything, other than mental effort, in order to have it

Psycho-kinetic energy.
.

 

[Miles]

.....................