e bike for a retiring colleague - any advice

[dmcgoldrick]

We are all to used to modern car travel expecting reliability, at the road side break-fix service and comprehensive pan-european dealer networks. Go back to the 1960's or earlier and taking your car touring through Europe would have required some planning.... you would have prepared for the journey, bought a comprehensive touring repair kit*, familiarised yourself on many aspects of repair and maintenance for your car and bought a service manual! E-bikes are still in the 1960's In this respect but no doubt will improve as time goes by....

* I still have an early 1970's Triumph touring kit, complete. Has all sorts of parts, valves, head gasket, exhaust gaskets, brake cylinder repair kit etc etc

spot on.........my own experience so far with e bikes, even without travelling is that we are still firmly on the bottom rung of the ladder concerning service and back up........ i will not elaborate here but when one spends best part of 2 grand for an e- bike, one expects a quality product with excellent back up.
very disappointed so far........

 

[Bob_about]

Perspective?

I dread to think what the original poster must be thinking about the way this thread has developed - perhaps its best viewed that e-bike owners are an enthusiastic bunch who get passionate about their bikes?

A couple of observations -

1.Its not a mass market product - e bikes in the UK are not a mass market and therefore do not support a massive retail network for all brands (Wisper are to be congratulated on their coverage) - there are parallels with other specialist supplies, eg my other main passion - kayaking there are some brands with coverage in many parts of the UK, others are imported by just a single company and distributed from a sole location. This does not mean the suppliers have 1960s approaches to customer service and support, in fact my experiences with some companies who are sole suppliers of products is that they are very aware that the brand reputation is down to them and they work hard to protect it.

2. The UK is not really that big - London, Milton Keynes, Kidderminster, Edinburgh, Cardif, Norwich, Carlisle etc - I can get to any of them in a day, I can and do order items from all these locations and recieve them within 48 hours (so long as its not snowing!) and I can and do return items back to these locations. So long as the supplier I use has a presence in the UK staffed by real people I can talk to either on the phone or in person I would be happy. E bikes, kayaks, Canadian Canoes, roof boxes can be bulky to courier about, but its all possible with sense and care.

My conclusions are therefore

You are buying something unusual - be prepared to put some effort into investigating, researching and trying things out to get what is best for your individual requirements - cannot all be done via the keyboard or at the local shop round the corner.

Dont worry too much about which corner of the UK you get it from - buy a reputable bike from a reputable supplier and it will not fail every five minutes if it does develop a problem a decent supplier will support you.

My personal experience - 10 months, 2800 miles, 1 problem which I am prepared to concede I contributed to via my "after-market mods" but which was dealt with speedily and effectively under warranty. Nothing has broken, shaken loose, fallen off, worn out too fast or failed to operate as expected.

Still on original tyres, brake pads, chain, chain ring, cables, pedals, lights etc

This is better then some 2010 cars - I have friends whose new cars have spent more time back at the dealer than on the road in the first few weeks!

Good luck

Bob_about

 

[eddieo]

Replacing a controller and replacing a rear motor is hardly major surgery,back in under two weeks,for what an average diy electric biker could do in less than two hours is apalling service,i know it was not actually wisper that repaired it but appointed service dealers.who probably knew very little about electric bikes.

Now you really are starting to spout utter rubbish. a lot of us dont have the time or the inclination to change brake pads etc... let alone wheels and motors and controllers and the like, personally not interested in the slightest

it was two weeks because I was away in Germany......so could well have been shorter I dont know. but 2 weeks is more then acceptable to a reasonable person I would think. My local bike shop had a hell of a lot longer waiting list for minor jobs in comparison because they are so busy

I also take exception to your ignorant criticism of Steve and the team at cyclemech/wisper service who are a great bunch. others members on here have posted good service from them as well. This arrangement was entered into I believe because Norman who only worked part time on his own? moved on to a better position within the company....

 

[Alex728]

I only recently dealt with cyclemech (as the Wisper is otherwise fairly reliable) and Steve sorted out getting a load of spares for me before they went on holiday.

The spares arrived (delivered to my work address) on Xmas Eve, along with a parcel of mobile telephones - nothing to do with Wisper but I add this as they were able to match (if not exceed) a very large international mobile telephone company with hundreds of staff and millions of pounds of resources for customer service.

I've done 4500 miles on mine since September 2009 and its only showing slight signs of wear on the obvious bike parts (apart from the ones I have already maintained/replaced) its been more reliable than my push bikes! OK I am an engineer and not frightened to do a lot of my own maintenance but Wisper have been extremely helpful as far as support is concerned. I think i've found the Netherlands dealer as well

 

[Blew it]

Please!

It appears there is a new virus, endemic exclusively within the membership of Pedelecs UK.

offtopicitus​

It is considered very poor forum etiquette to use another members thread to air personal grievences. I just hope that member 'covehithe', the originator of this thread, has a finely honed ability to 'read between the lines'

Keep it tight guys, it doesn't look good to the many visitors to this site.

 

[Alex728]

I agree that personal attacks are unwarranted (although being younger everything I've seen here is mild stuff compared to some other forums I am on!) but at the same time I don't believe in burying bad news.

The OP did ask about reliability - and I would wholly expect an old retired accountant who already enjoys cycling would expect top quality service and support from whatever e-bike his colleagues get him when they are spending that sort of money, and full and frank discussions over repair timescales are worth having, as once he gets the bike I expect he won't want to be without it.. its also possible the retired accountant might even want to go on holiday with the bike..

(it appears he has already got the info he wanted and gone off with the accountant to choose a bike anyway, or will do so when the retailers come back off holiday..)

if discussions on here put off forum members or even potential customers so be it - let it serve as a reminder to even the best businesses they constantly need to improve customer service. After all if there were less reliability problems on these premium priced bikes (and I agree with the poster who said it is like motoring in the old days) there wouldn't be all these complaints and grievances

 

[eddieo]

while I agree the bickering and sarcasm does no one any good, I also am a member of other forums and topics do tend to ebb and flow organically nothing wrong with that I think....

 

[NRG]

Yes, the OP question was answered a while ago and he's off to look at some bikes. Thread drift is natural on many many forums and should not be discouraged IMHO, however, the 'handbags' could usefully be taken off line but these really are very very minor and infrequent also compared to some other forums I frequent now and again! Anyhow at least it shows we are passionate about the main subject even if we are sat at different points on the compass...

 

[allen-uk]

There is a nutty American professor who has worked out a formula for message boards, where N times messages = someone calling someone else a fascist.

It works well on many boards I've visited, but for all sorts of good reasons, doesn't apply here, and long may it be so.


A

 

[Scimitar]

There is a nutty American professor who has worked out a formula for message boards, where N times messages = someone calling someone else a fascist.

It works well on many boards I've visited, but for all sorts of good reasons, doesn't apply here, and long may it be so.


A

Godwin's Law.

 

[fishingpaul]

while I agree the bickering and sarcasm does no one any good, I also am a member of other forums and topics do tend to ebb and flow organically nothing wrong with that I think....

You agree that bickering and sarcasm does no good,then how do you explain accusing people of spouting utter rubbish and being ignorant,i remember your complaints when your bike was broken,and how you thought about buying something else,ok you are now happy again to at last have your bike working,but the service was far from exceptional,this is my point wisper have gone from having a reasonably good bike but with an exceptional hands on in house back up service,they are still selling a reasonably good bike but without the excellent service,appointing sales agents to get a bigger share of the market but are now less hands on.

 

[allen-uk]

Godwin's Law.

Thanks S.

(Now THAT should puzzle anyone who hasn't been following this thread with due diligence...)


A

 

[Alex728]

this is my point wisper have gone from having a reasonably good bike but with an exceptional hands on in house back up service,they are still selling a reasonably good bike but without the excellent service,appointing sales agents to get a bigger share of the market but are now less hands on.

TBH I think eddieo was particularly unlucky, he ended up in a foreign country right at the time of the changeover, and one which didn't even have a local Wisper dealer, in DE it would be very hard to compete with the local bikes/e-bikes (they do have a dealer in NL/BE but this might be a new arrangement and this dealer only seems to sell the 706 / 906 with hub gears - not surprising given the way the market is shaped).

Also by his own admission didn't chase progress of the repair, maybe its because I'm younger and "impatient" but I always press for a definite timescale for something to be delivered, and chase towards the end of this simply to make sure everything is on track - there is a practice of "burying bad news" and not keeping the customer informed even in the best British businesses...

however when I wanted spares for my Wisper just before the Xmas period Steve did everything possible to ensure I got them. OK I do a lot of my own maintenance which helps but Wisper still provide better service than so many other companies, and most importantly admit to mistakes and issues.

They aren't perfect - ironically I think one cause of this is because small improvements to components during a model year aren't fully documented against the applicable serial numbers, there are subtle changes to dimensions of components or their nature which cannot be just ascertained without visual inspection of the bike, so it must be easy for dealers to order the wrong spares, causing further delays or sods law meaning that particular spare goes out of stock when most needed..

I've seen just as bad reports of service about the German Panasonic bikes, such as the 24(?) spoke wheel débacle on the Pro-Connect, with Derby Cycles ignoring correspondence from customers and the dealers and Derby pointing fingers and dragging their heels. In 07/08 early adopters of Wispers had some duff wheels too but they were not just rebuilt but the wheels redesigned...

 

[eddieo]

You agree that bickering and sarcasm does no good,then how do you explain accusing people of spouting utter rubbish and being ignorant,i remember your complaints when your bike was broken,and how you thought about buying something else,ok you are now happy again to at last have your bike working,but the service was far from exceptional,this is my point Wisper have gone from having a reasonably good bike but with an exceptional hands on in house back up service,they are still selling a reasonably good bike but without the excellent service,appointing sales agents to get a bigger share of the market but are now less hands on.

But still unfortunately doing it.......Wisper now have more full service e bike centres than any other UK e bike manufacturer that I know of, look at the map? A bit different then Norman struggling on his own, part time, with a business that is undergoing 3-4 fold expansion? You should remember that they are not afraid of finishing relationships with dealers that do not perform either?

What did you realistically expect a local repair centre in Working to do for me when I was in Italy? I tried to fix it with help from on here via my Blackberry, but as it turned out it was not something simple like a loose wire?

Its only when you look around that you realise there ain't that much choice around that offers decent support, no matter what you say...I cant think of another bike with the level of support and choice that Wisper offer.

 

[carpetbagger]

i would like to throw another bike in to the equation....the Powabyke Euro..
pros
cheap
reliable
workhorse
strong hub motor
cheap batteries
not an expensive mistake if an ebike proves to be short term

cons
heavy
dated design

ok please don't shout but its a great bike to get into the ebike world.

 

[eddieo]

They have a BIG budget, it is a retirement gift....

 

[carpetbagger]

yes but given a dodgy knee and angina short term it may seem a good idea to blow the big budget,but these ebikes might not suit. A powabyke would meet the criteria and not be an expensive mistake 12 months down the line even if its a gift....just my opinion given the circumstances.If it was me i would want the best that money can buy !!

 

[NRG]

Trying to break out of the Wisper/Ezee mould how about the Sparta Ion GL

Not the lightest of bikes or perhaps the best climber but lots of nice features like servo lock, heart rate monitor, torque sensor, quiet direct drive motor etc

Electric Bike Sales - Shop Online for Electric Bikes, Electric Vehicles and Cycle Accessories - Sparta Ion GL

 

[BBB]

I was looking earlier this year to add to my stable of e bikes that I retail.
having sold quite a few hundred ebikes I didn't want to get my fingers burnt, and have customers complaining about unreliable bikes. Back-up from the supplier was important, and feedback off forums like this one.

I chose the Wisper because they still have a throttle which many of my customers like, and the Raleigh Dover, which although it has not got a throttle the system is so good I do not think it needs one. Obviously Kalkhoff is similar to Raleigh but so far with more models.
The important thing is a good dealer near you, because like has been said on here, even new cars still go wrong sometimes.

I am not saying these are the only top bikes, but just wanted to add my thoughts on the matter.
Most of my customers will not even mend a simple puncture, they just want good reliable transport.

Good luck with the search, but I can imagine you are far more confused than when you started, it is a mini minefield out there.

 

[Wisper Bikes]

incidentally are their Wisper dealers/service centres in the Benelux nations? I am considering going cycling in NL or BE in the future but as I would be unlikely to be taking another motor vehicle along with me would need some kind of backup..

Hi Alex

Yes we do have representation in the Benelux countries. If you need details speak to Rene at Heydecoper Mobility Group B.V. benelux@wisperbikes.com

He will be able to help you.

Best regards

David