E bike or Emtb for commute!

Hello all,

 

My first post got deleted I'm not sure why. I asked support for an explanation but am yet to receive a reply.

 

A change in job recently has made me think hard about getting an E-bike or E-Mtb.

I'm a completely novice rider and I haven't even ridden an E-bike so totally inexperienced.

I've been looking into various makes and models and the more I dig the more questions I have.

 

I will be using the bike to commute 10 miles (each way) daily.

 

Are E Bikes and E-mtb’s the same thing in terms of how the motors perform. The reason I ask this is why don't I just buy a decent Mountain bike from say Specialized, a respected big player in the industry. No concern with parts being dodgy, far better gears and suspension for those pesky pot holes on uk roads.

 

Also safety wise I imagine the batteries are way less likely to catch fire over the dodgy Chinese bikes.

 

Not to mention the availability of support if things go wrong which I have found is a common problem with the Chinese E bikes.

 

For example you can buy E-mtb’s which are a couple of years old for around 2k and their original price was a whopping 4k when released. Surely these are substantially better bikes than the new e bikes which cost around the same price? They still have all the essentials like assistance up to 15 mph and if your feeling fruity these can also be unlocked to hit around 28mph.

 

I appreciate the bigger tyres might make the bike feel a bit slower and an Emtb isnt intended for commuting but surely the motor negates any of these negatives with relative ease.

 

Also, if you did decide to be a bit fruity with the speed assist one of those chopper Ebikes with a throttle are far more likely to catch the police attention than what looks like a regular mountain bike.

 

Am I on the right track or am I missing something really obvious?

Thanks in advance..

Last

if you buy a bike with say a bosch motor when the warranty ends so does the parts as they wont sell any motor parts inc bearings.

 

plus a 500w bosch batt is 650 quid where as if you did a diy bike with a bafang motor the batt will be half the price.

 

https://reddragonebikes.co.uk/shop/

tho you loose the warranty if you up the speed limit but all motor parts can be replaced.

 

speed wise most new bikes are made in such a way even if you use a dongle you wont be able to fit more than a 38t at the front and the spin out.

 

i have the eq to a 52t on my bike and will go 39mph at max 120rpm som motors are lower like 100rpm,

 

and dont buy anything with a shitmano motor as no one will service them.

 

https://www.ebikemotorcentre.com/

 

a bbshd motor set at 30a drops me like a horse vs a dragster as i have to go up the gears.

 

https://www.pedelecs.co.uk/forum/threads/stolen-gloucester-town-centre-giant-bafang-diy.45980/

 

m8 rode that frame till it had cracks in the frame and broke every saddle rail as well but uses it for work every day ALL WEATHER sounds a bit ruff now tho but it is 4 years old.

 

never been pulled over once same as me

Flat or hilly? Secure storage at work, or not? Does work do cycle to work scheme? Is the bike just for your commute, or for leisure use too?

my bosch bike is 10 years old now with a gen 2 cx motor but broke my hip in a crash in may so not riding it atm but rrp was 5500.

 

donor bike and 1k will get you a bbshd and batt.

https://www.pedelecs.co.uk/forum/threads/emtb-owners-photo-and-ride-thread.24089/page-145

 

the frame is the only part from new now

Flat or hilly? Secure storage at work, or not? Does work do cycle to work scheme? Is the bike just for your commute, or for leisure use too?

 

It's primarily flat there's a couple of hills but nothing crazy. Its London. Its main use will be for commuting. The storage at work is solid. If you have any recommendations Im all ears.

if in London id not spend any big money on a ebike esp if you want to up the speed limit but that is your choice

As a tool to do the job, you don't need anything special, so it comes down to your preferences.

 

If you buy new, you get warranty and if your employer offers it, the possibility of money saving through cycle to work scheme.

 

Secondhand, no warranty so you take a bit of a gamble on it not going wrong. Not a big issue if you look after it, but don't buy a secondhand MTB that has done hard work every weekend for a couple of years.

 

In the busy streets and cycle paths of London, you may attract attention and certainly won't be doing any favours to the cause of ebikes if you fiddle the speed. Better to stay legal.

if in London id not spend any big money on a ebike esp if you want to up the speed limit but that is your choice

Fair enough. Is that because your worried about theft. It would be in a secure area at all times.I'm not talking about turning it into a crazy speed machine. 22-28mph max speed. I

Commuting on the Road with no big hills would suit a cadence sensor rear hub motored bike. I had both a rear hub Chinese derived bike and a Haibike hardtail Yamaha motored crank drive bike and for road riding the simple rear hub bike was superior. The crank drive mountain bike came in to its own off road or where you have a lot of steep hills. My basic commute was 10 miles one way, 20 miles round trip. Something like the Woosh Gran Camino would make a great commuting bike.

 

Surprisingly the well known brand purpose build crank drive mountain bikes mostly have locked down electrical systems that make them very hard/expensive/impossible to fix outside their two year warranty period. You have to buy their batteries when you need a new one and they are a lot more expensive.

 

https://wooshbikes.co.uk/?gran-camino

Edited February 7, 20251 yr by georgehenry

As a tool to do the job, you don't need anything special, so it comes down to your preferences.

 

If you buy new, you get warranty and if your employer offers it, the possibility of money saving through cycle to work scheme.

 

Secondhand, no warranty so you take a bit of a gamble on it not going wrong. Not a big issue if you look after it, but don't buy a secondhand MTB that has done hard work every weekend for a couple of years.

 

In the busy streets and cycle paths of London, you may attract attention and certainly won't be doing any favours to the cause of ebikes if you fiddle the speed. Better to stay legal.

 

So the ebikes I've been looking at are £1400-2k range. The Emtb's 2k and made by a respected name in the industry.I'm looking at buying brand new only. Is this overkill or a sensible option?

i dont leave my bike anywhere never wheels was 1k fox 36 forks another 1k id have to insure it for 10k

 

id prob go for a hub rear wheel motor then that way the batt will be the most expensive item.

 

https://wooshbikes.co.uk/

Check out Woosh and Whisper for vfm off the shelf solutions. Brands you may be more familiar with are best avoided as their penchant for proprietary systems tying you into a closed eco system for parts and spares (batteries) can be very expensive.

 

Avoid anything with battery coms and canbus in the blurb- its only there to turn off batteries and controllers when not plugged into known equipment IE cheaper generic style batteries built with quality cells.

 

A conversion of a suitable quality bike (good brakes and comfortable) is probably the best way to get on an e-bike. but if not so inclined its an 'involved' tyre change - workwise with added cable management.. go see the woosh n whisper sites..

 

An emtb is great for mtb terrain, but would be wasted on a daily commute and probably be less than ideal comfort wise.. with a motor doing some? most? of the work your backside needn't be up and out of the saddle as often

So the ebikes I've been looking at are £1400-2k range. The Emtb's 2k and made by a respected name in the industry.I'm looking at buying brand new only. Is this overkill or a sensible option?

If you post links to specific bikes in both categories that you have in mind, people will have a better understanding of where you are up to, and can advise from that starting point.

 

There are plenty of options in the price range you mention.

Check out Woosh and Whisper for vfm off the shelf solutions. Brands you may be more familiar with are best avoided as their penchant for proprietary systems tying you into a closed eco system for parts and spares (batteries) can be very expensive.

 

Avoid anything with battery coms and canbus in the blurb- its only there to turn off batteries and controllers when not plugged into known equipment IE cheaper generic style batteries built with quality cells.

 

A conversion of a suitable quality bike (good brakes and comfortable) is probably the best way to get on an e-bike. but if not so inclined its an 'involved' tyre change - workwise with added cable management.. go see the woosh n whisper sites..

 

An emtb is great for mtb terrain, but would be wasted on a daily commute and probably be less than ideal comfort wise.. with a motor doing some? most? of the work your backside needn't be up and out of the saddle as often

 

Thanks for replying. Plenty to think about. I'm not against DIY but as I'm currently without a bike at all I would still need to decide on the style of bike.

Edited February 7, 20251 yr by MrG

If you post links to specific bikes in both categories that you have in mind, people will have a better understanding of where you are up to, and can advise from that starting point.

 

There are plenty of options in the price range you mention.

 

Thanks man good plan. Here's the bike I'm looking at.

 

Its more a hybrid than a straight up MTB.Thoughts?

https://www.specialized.com/gb/en/turbo-tero-x-40/p/200361?color=323861-200361

 

Normal E-bike. The Engwe E-26 or something like this. https://www.estarli.co.uk/products/e28-x

Edited February 7, 20251 yr by MrG

Woosh bikes are doing the 'Faro' complete with disc brakes,mudguards and rack at the moment for 699 pounds for 8Ah battery version.

https://wooshbikes.co.uk/?faro

https://wooshbikes.co.uk/

Also Woosh has the stronger/heavier Camino (15Ah) bike for £999.

https://wooshbikes.co.uk/?camino

You don't have to worry about dodgy Chinese bikes. they're just as reliable and durable than any of the more expensive branded bikes you've been looking at, and the batteries don't catch fire either. Don't take any notice of the hysteria floating around. AFAICS most of the fires are caused by badly modified bikes and fast charging done by couriers. I've been on this forum for 14 years and never heard of anyone here getting a fire.

 

All electric bikes will need something fixed after some time. When it comes to the electrical systems, most of the electrical parts are easy and cheap to fix on the cheap bikes, but the more expensive ones have locked electrical systems, so that only a dealer with the right equipment can fix them, so which bike to get depends on your ability to fix it or where the dealer is, who can fix it. In other words, you can buy some fancy expensive brand by mail order, but when it goes wrong, you're stuffed.

 

Personally, for the journey you describe, I'd get a cheap Amazon electric bike (about £750) with a rear hub-motor because they're reliable, durable and easy to fix. When you have an electric motor, you don't need the things that would make a normal bike expensive, like fancy gears and lightweight stuff. At least when you have a cheap bike, it's not so bad when it gets nicked.

 

If you decide to buy a used bike, always reckon on buying a new battery for it, so take that into consideration when considering the price.

 

AS the others have said, Woosh bikes are pretty good for what you want.

Thanks man good plan. Here's the bike I'm looking at.

 

Its more a hybrid than a straight up MTB.Thoughts?

https://www.specialized.com/gb/en/turbo-tero-x-40/p/200361?color=323861-200361

 

Normal E-bike. The Engwe E-26 or something like this. https://www.estarli.co.uk/products/e28-x

 

A general rule of thumb is the more built in and less bolt on an ebike looks the more closed and proprietary its system and spares are likely to be, some will even require an app with fees to turn on the bike..

 

Just have a browse in here and see just how many issues can only be resolved by ripping out the original control and often battery systems of 'branded' bikes to only replace with simple generic systems, and the more built in the harder the replacement job can be.

 

Battery quality concerns are valid, but many respected suppliers provide top notch quality cells and BMS systems in standard generic form factors. ie 'hailong' and 'silverfish' (dont blame me for the nomenclature) at reasonable prices circa 30-50% or less the price of many custom fit n frame offerings. Yose-power, Pswpower and greenlance are battery suppliers used and recommended by members here. When you start looking for ebike batteries the metrics are easy to grasp and compare against reality- 90% of dodgy battery ads cant resist a lil bullshite .

 

If spare batteries and costs are not prominent or easy to find linked to bike ads be wary, and consider the possibility a replacement battery enquiry may be considered a new bike sales lead in a year or three.

** Both Woosh and Whisper however have displayed dedication to keeping older 2nd and 3rd hand bikes rolling with help and support offered through posts in here.. hence the recommendations.

 

fwiw i think i finally got a goodish grasp of the ebike market place about 2 months after buying my kit...

 

btw im a cheap git and couldn't spend almost 4k on a car let alone a push bike but its your cash so buy what makes you smile.. just do so with open eyes..

 

 

btw im a cheap git and couldn't spend almost 4k on a car let alone a push bike but its your cash so buy what makes you smile.. just do so with open eyes..

 

Ha Ha, Same but the Specialized model I posted can be had for 2k now. Cheers for all the info its opened my eyes to a few things.

Edited February 8, 20251 yr by MrG

All electric bikes will need something fixed after some time. When it comes to the electrical systems, most of the electrical parts are easy and cheap to fix on the cheap bikes, but the more expensive ones have locked electrical systems, so that only a dealer with the right equipment can fix them, so which bike to get depends on your ability to fix it or where the dealer is, who can fix it. In other words, you can buy some fancy expensive brand by mail order, but when it goes wrong, you're stuffed.

 

 

Yeah of course that's something I hadn't considered. Cheers

All the bikes you mention will do the job, but it is possible as others have shown to spend quite a bit less.

 

The Specialized has a spec that would do very well for moderate offroading - four piston brake calipers, 12 speed wide range gears - which a London commute does not need. And mudguards that offroaders would not normally bother with, but very useful on a commuter. You probably do need a rack.

 

It is the 'proprietary' type of bike that is often warned about as expensive to fix if it goes wrong. True, but how often do they go wrong, and why? Not often, and usually from hard use or excessive exposure to water.

 

It is also a 'mid-drive', with the motor driving through the chain and gears. Together with the torque sensor as the means of control, this gives a very natural cycling feel when you ride it. But do you need that for a commute? If you want the feeling of bionic legs and lost youth, then yes. If getting from a to b effectively is more important then you can live without it.

 

The Engwe E28 is expensive for a rear hub motor bike, but the belt drive makes it clean and easy to live with, and if reliable enough, the two speed hub is probably all the gears your commute needs.

 

The E26 is nothing special, and rather heavy, so I would look at alternatives to that. The Woosh suggestions above perhaps.

 

One or two final thoughts: 20 miles a day is substantial: quite a workload for both bike and rider. 5,000 miles a year? I'd just do a 'sense check' before committing to an expensive bike, although the likely cost savings against other means of transport probably mean there is not much to worry about even if you don't ride every day.

 

My 3.5 year old Shimano mid-drive has clocked up 20,000 miles. It might manage the same again, might not. You might end up writing off the cost of the bike over two or three years. Does that level of depreciation look OK?

 

Many commuters use folding small wheel bikes to keep the flexibility of trains without special bookings. Do you need that possibility?

I think just about all e-bikes will do what you want. I'm not convinced the more expensive e-mountain bikes will be any better for what you want. I find a hub motored bike more relaxing for commuting (I have a mid (crank) drive and that is better for mountain biking)

As others have said, be wary of the battery in second hand bikes, if it has not been looked after it might need replacing which can be very expensive. I wouldn't be scared of Chinese generic technology, lots of countries that have the highest e-bike usage are relying on this technology and it is relatively easy to service / replace components cheaply.

I answered your original post yesterday but the reply got trashed along with your post.

Most of this has now been said by others but I'm copying it unedited. ~~~

 

For commuting there is one overriding requirement, reliability; with a closish second, repairability. Often with more expensive ebikes you are paying for lightness and sophistication. These often go against the reliability and durability. In addition the proprietary nature of bikes such as Specialized means you are very tied into the dealer for supplying and fitting parts; they are likely to be expensive and sometimes slow to find, especially if the bike is more than a few years old.

 

Generic Chinese bikes tend to have much more generic parts that can be sourced easily, quickly and cheaply. The poor ones are certainly dodgy; but even the slightly better ones will have decent quality parts; in particular properly specified and matching battery and charger. They will be heavier than a second hand 4k bike; but the same argument you used for tyres applies to weight.

 

One particular feature that higher priced bikes tend to have is crank drive. There are many advantages to these, especially if you have very steep hills or want to try sporty downhill riding. However, they are more complicated then hub drive; even though mostly reliable any repairs are more complicated. So for normal commuting people generally suggest simpler hub drives.

 

I suggest looking at a decent bike from a good supplier such as https://wooshbikes.co.uk/ or https://wisperbikes.com/

Ha Ha, Same but the Specialized model I posted can be had for 2k now. Cheers for all the info its opened my eyes to a few things.

There's a reason for that.