E-bikes vs tourers and "lycra" bikes..

[Alex728]

Been wondering about this for a while..

I think there are a fair few people around like myself - men aged 25-45, not quite teenagers but still "young at heart" - either single or with a young family - in a professional career with a reasonable income, but for whom either the cost or environmental impact of motor vehicles (particularly for forward thinking parents) is becoming an issue.

Some of us are already into cycling, and may own more than one bike already, but we are still blokes who like new toys and fast things, and are at the stage where (perhaps also from watching sport on TV) we are tempted to buy an expensive road bike or a tourer like a Dawes Super Galaxy.

but at the same time we realise that even if we are relatively fit, there are practicalities such as arriving at work in a decent state (or even if showers etc are present not wanting to have to wake up an hour earlier and prepare to change at work), or wanting to carry stuff in panniers or trailers (such as dogs/children (OK not usually in the pannier!)) - which a road bike is ill suited for.

And a Dawes Super Galaxy costs as much as a Wisper!

So I wonder if even in Britain, ebikes will be increasingly eating into the sales of high end push bikes? Time for the more enlightened LBS's to start stocking them maybe before they lose out on a lot of business?

 

[Psycosis]

Alex,

Like yourself i fall into that exact same category.
No showers at work, i am 30, reasonably fit. Like having various cool thinga and whats cooler than an electric bike after all!

I think its only a matter of time. Once the range goes up and maybe the government may relax the rules a little rather than tightening them, i reckon we could see more electric bikes replacing things like scooters and people from further out of London using them to commute on bike superhighways.

I personally like the idea of building a cycle path next to the train lines, especially since there is always space next to them. That would be pretty direct as well.

 

[Mussels]

I personally like the idea of building a cycle path next to the train lines, especially since there is always space next to them. That would be pretty direct as well.

Your train lines might have space but the lines I use to get into London certainly don't. Fortunately the roads travel in a straighter line than the train tracks but that means going over the hills rather than round them.
I have been considering a decent tourer instead of an ebike and fortunately the European version of the 906 is arriving just in time, it will probably be just what I'm looking for as the journey is a bit too far to contemplate doing it every day without power. The other bike I considered is a Cytronex which would be ideal most of the time but I'm not quite happy about the range.

 

[eddieo]

Hi Mussels, "The European version of 906" is this the bigger framed 906xc you are interested in? I am still not sure re front hub motors but the 8 speed gearbox is attractive plus all the other quality kit..........But it is rather expensive!

I have sold by 905 so in the market for something new

 

[monster]

there's an interesting but short thread on the ctc forum today about electric bikes catching on. it seems very positive. not like a year ago when there was a more negative atitude.

 

[Bikerbob]

A lightweight ebike like the Cytronex should be ideal for this market but the lack of range must put a lot of people off. I asked Cytronex whether they had any plans to offer an alternative larger battery. I think about 50% extra range would suit most people, including myself. They said that they had no such plans as they didn't want to compromise the light weight of the bike. They suggested I carry a spare battery, but that seems a clumsy solution.

 

[HarryB]

3 batteries??

Profile Design Aqua Rear Mount Double Bottle Cage

 

[Pedalo]

A lightweight ebike like the Cytronex should be ideal for this market but the lack of range must put a lot of people off. I asked Cytronex whether they had any plans to offer an alternative larger battery. I think about 50% extra range would suit most people, including myself. They said that they had no such plans as they didn't want to compromise the light weight of the bike. They suggested I carry a spare battery, but that seems a clumsy solution.

Range was a concern of mine before I bought one and having used one for a few months, I would say Cytronex is ideal if your distance to work is less than about 10 miles. At this distance you can get away with one charge for the round trip if you're prepared to put in quite a bit of effort. Alternatively you could charge the battery at work and put in very little effort and arrive sweat free.

At this distance you'd still have juice left in the battery in reserve for headwinds and/or to account for a little degradation in battery life over time.

 

[eddieo]

There were English kids on campsite in Italy last year with 1-3k bikes...13 to 16 year olds. they where taking them up the mountains and having great fun on the way down. You can get a bit out of touch with what is going on, I indulge my teenagers with musical equipment etc....I got the impression that 2k for a bike was normal for them. one had just had his stolen and bought a new one.......

also a not particulirly well paid guy where I worked had a 2k road bike and was saving for a 6k 2 kilo model

 

[lemmy]

They said that they had no such plans as they didn't want to compromise the light weight of the bike. They suggested I carry a spare battery, but that seems a clumsy solution.

Are they suggesting that carrying a second battery to get the range you want doesn't compromise the weight?

To offer someone the choice between range or weight seems to be too complicated for some makers. You will buy what they choose to make. They know best.

I sometimes wonder whether they aren't so much businesses as a crusade for two wheeled purity. Attitudes like that put people off buying bikes in the UK, powered or not.

 

[HarryB]

Are they suggesting that carrying a second battery to get the range you want doesn't compromise the weight?

To offer someone the choice between range or weight seems to be too complicated for some makers. You will buy what they choose to make. They know best.

I sometimes wonder whether they aren't so much businesses as a crusade for two wheeled purity. Attitudes like that put people off buying bikes in the UK, powered or not.

I think this modular way of doing things works very well considering there are limits to squeezing batteries in a limited size. I doubt they could pack a bigger battery in the space of that bottle so I am not sure where else is it would go.

I don't get any more than a 10 mile range even if I put in a fair amount of effort so it doesn't take much traffic or hills to reduce that 'theoretical' range of 20 miles.

In the end if you want a big range there are better ebikes out there but if you are prepared to accept that limitation then the Cytronex is one of the best on the market. Not bad for a British design!

 

[Pedalo]

I don't get any more than a 10 mile range even if I put in a fair amount of effort so it doesn't take much traffic or hills to reduce that 'theoretical' range of 20 miles.

I'm surprised there's such a big discrepancy between your experience and mine. I guess everyone has different number of hills and a different idea of what "quite a bit of effort is."

Your milage may vary (and by quite a lot!).

 

[jerrysimon]

Well I live in Cambridge (pretty flat) and my round trip is about 11 miles.

I do this on a single charge even if I don't put much effort in (I always pedal start before engaing power) and I reckon I could do a few more miles.

I did try a test when I first had it. After a cycle to work and back, I rode about another 4 or 5 miles before the battery failed.

All that said my ride is almost dead flat with a few small inclines.

Regards

Jerry

 

[HarryB]

I'm surprised there's such a big discrepancy between your experience and mine. I guess everyone has different number of hills and a different idea of what "quite a bit of effort is."

Your milage may vary (and by quite a lot!).

Well, up hill most of the way home and plenty of stop start through the traffic - all takes its toll on the battery.

 

[Barnowl]

My journeys are moderatley hilly with a few 1/2 mile or so slogs. My input overall is about 75% and I usually get a range of about 20 miles. It has varied from 16 miles - 26 miles.
The important point for me though is that the motor gives me assistance when I want it - uphill, headwind or minimising sweat.

PS I'm light on the brakes and can usually keep the use to minimum.

 

[Pedalo]

Well, up hill most of the way home and plenty of stop start through the traffic - all takes its toll on the battery.

My route is 7.5 miles through country lanes and no stopping once I get going. I do have quite a few hills the worst being one that gets to 1 in 9 for a few hundred metres. Most of the other hills are pretty gentle but they do go on for long enough to seem hard work on a non-electric bike. I put in a reasonable level of effort and do the round trip on one charge. If I put in very little effort the motor cuts out on the final hill near my house.

 

[Alex728]

There were English kids on campsite in Italy last year with 1-3k bikes...13 to 16 year olds. they where taking them up the mountains and having great fun on the way down. You can get a bit out of touch with what is going on, I indulge my teenagers with musical equipment etc....I got the impression that 2k for a bike was normal for them. one had just had his stolen and bought a new one.......

I help run a very popular "youth lifestyle forum" for the electronic dance music scene, you get everyone from their teens to their mid 40s and early 50s on there, and a lot of the younger teenagers although not obvious "hippies" are increasingly environmentally aware and not only enjoy riding bicycles, but realise deep down that the current situation of mummy and daddy subsidising their first car is becoming less sustainable (even if they aren't particularly happy about it).

 

[Barnowl]

Are they suggesting that carrying a second battery to get the range you want doesn't compromise the weight?

To offer someone the choice between range or weight seems to be too complicated for some makers. You will buy what they choose to make. They know best.

I sometimes wonder whether they aren't so much businesses as a crusade for two wheeled purity. Attitudes like that put people off buying bikes in the UK, powered or not.

Cytronex is a very small company. As I understand it they have designed their own customised kit based on the tongxin motor and an NIMH battery which they fit to "normal bikes". Their market is mostly commuters who want a normal looking bike that gives them some assistance. The 2 battery modular approach I see as just a recommendation for the occassion when you want more range. Fitting a permanent heavier Lithium battery would mean either a purpose built electric bike like the Wisper or Kalkhoff with the battery behind the seat tube or sticking it on a rack. Personally I'd rather have the lighter option which makes it less conspicuous and handle better. If I want alternative options I can go to other suppliers.

 

[HarryB]

My route is 7.5 miles through country lanes and no stopping once I get going. I do have quite a few hills the worst being one that gets to 1 in 9 for a few hundred metres. Most of the other hills are pretty gentle but they do go on for long enough to seem hard work on a non-electric bike. I put in a reasonable level of effort and do the round trip on one charge. If I put in very little effort the motor cuts out on the final hill near my house.

A lot of it is the stop start - it is the same with a car. You might get 50+mpg on the motorway but only 30 mpg in town. Once cruising I am doing most of the work because my cruising speed is 16+mph so the stop start and hills must account for the lack of range.

 

[Alex728]

To offer someone the choice between range or weight seems to be too complicated for some makers. You will buy what they choose to make. They know best.

I sometimes wonder whether they aren't so much businesses as a crusade for two wheeled purity. Attitudes like that put people off buying bikes in the UK, powered or not.

to be fair I think the Cytronex was always aimed at a niche market, although I would have considered one were I still living in Reading and riding much shorter distances. If you want the long range, then get a Wisper with 14Ah batteries. I didn't realise until recently that the Dawes Super Galaxy (unpowered!) was the same price as the 905SE City!