E10 error on my new ebike

Andy-Mat

Esteemed Pedelecer
Oct 26, 2018
1,810
435
74
The guy that keeps recommending those testers has never actually used one. I told you that it was a waste of money. You have to make cable adapters for most bikes to use the tester. By the time you've done that, you would have had your bike tested and fixed using a normal meter. Those meters were quite useful about 10 years ago, when Chinese bikes had a fairly standard wiring layout, and you had about a 50% chance of being able to connect directly, but they're pretty well useless today.
How would/could you know that?
Have you forgotten that I live in Germany, and you certainly don't.
We have never met and we are are not friends, and I usually ignore your rude and coarse manner as much as possible, which is apparently your usual "state" when posting on Pedelec.
So you are again letting your overly imaginative brain, get well beyond the bounds of normal, online good manners again.......Do you realise :-
That's exactly what internet trolls do!
By the way, just so you know, at the end of 2019 possibly, well over a year ago and before COVID, I was invited by a friend of mine who has a bike shop, to watch one of his guys use such a tester.
I asked why he needed it and he says it saves him massive amounts of time when searching for some problem types. Also, he had made adapters for all the bikes that he sells for the tester (he actually has more than one!) and he can often know within minutes exactly what the fault is....... As using meters, often needs far more time and sometimes 4 hands......his words not mine.
I have myself also bought one sometime last year, and other than testing the tester out that it works, I have not had a problem to try it out in ernest yet!
Also, e-bike testers are SO cheap nowadays, and even though I have several multi-meters, a capacitance meter, two 'Scopes and an inductance meter, and the knowledge as how to use them all, I still feel that it was worthwhile buying a tester, so that I can for example connect it to the motor harness and watch the motor fields and the switching of all the hall effect sensors - ALL TOGETHER - and still have hands free to spin the wheel and I only need to connect ONCE.
To do the same with a multi-meter, either I would need 6 meters to check three fields switching and Hall effects switching, to observe them all together (impractical and MOST expensive) or connect 6 times......which is time consuming at the very least and multiplies the number of errors that might be made!
I know that you prefer multi-meters (you do keep telling us all again and again!), but as you are "in the bike business", if I remember correctly, that does seem to be a huge waste of your time......but your personal choice of course!
What you appear to not understand is that many people want a simple "GO NO GO" clear indication, and do not wish to learn how to connect and interpret Meter signals and how different components react.....Which is their free choice of course......
What I simply cannot understand from your standpoint, is to keep telling people that a multi-meter is better, when many of them have not got the training or the background to use one! Of course if you made some videos and documentation available to assist them better, that would be a nice thing to do, but how and when?
Also, that a reasonable quality multi-meter will often cost 50 UK Pounds upwards, but these e-bike test meters start at around 10 UK Pounds, and even if it gets broken, most here will simply go and buy a new one and at around 10 pounds a pop, and still save money over a single meter......
Also, meters, even quality ones, can get quickly damaged by people on the steep learning curve of electrics and electronics! Ones who forget to select the proper range and/or polarity, for example, but that you never seem to mention for some reason.
Just so we are clear, I myself prefer to have BOTH, sorry ALL, types of test instrument available, "just in case!"
That is MY CHOICE! Do you have something against that? o_O:eek:o_O
Why are you always looking out for an argument of some sort, is your ego SO inflated as it appears to be here on the pages of Pedelec.
I do wish most sincerely and hope, that you manage to grow up and soon and learn some better manners and how to use them!.
Do have a great day - I am!:):):):):)
Andy
 

Andy-Mat

Esteemed Pedelecer
Oct 26, 2018
1,810
435
74
I've just blown my tester up. I put the alligator clips onto the throttle connector but they are so close together they must have touched. I can't see how you are supposed to do this. I would need a male connector to loose wires on the throttle. Anyway, I can't see an internal fuse so I guess it's toast.
Its always a good idea to use Croc-Clips like these to preven shorts as far as possible:-
Regards
Andy
 

Nealh

Esteemed Pedelecer
Aug 7, 2014
14,174
5,487
58
West Sx RH
The Blue phase if showing zero is a failed mosfet.
 

Albion

Finding my (electric) wheels
Jun 29, 2021
22
4
The Blue phase if showing zero is a failed mosfet.
Thanks, is there a way I can find out which mosfet to change. Not that I probably would. I heard that if one mosfet goes, then so do a whole bunch, but that could be wrong, I don't know. I was just weighing out my options.
 

Albion

Finding my (electric) wheels
Jun 29, 2021
22
4
Its always a good idea to use Croc-Clips like these to preven shorts as far as possible:-
Regards
Andy
Thanks Andy. I'm not casting judgement at all. It was probably a good bit of kit. I'm the idiot blowing it up. It wasn't like 100 pounds or anything. Do you know of any way to repair it though, out of interest.
 

Nealh

Esteemed Pedelecer
Aug 7, 2014
14,174
5,487
58
West Sx RH
Trace the tracks on the board from the blue phase input, it will likely be a three or four fets to a phase.
 

vfr400

Esteemed Pedelecer
Jun 12, 2011
9,822
3,922
Basildon
How would/could you know that?
Have you forgotten that I live in Germany, and you certainly don't.
We have never met and we are are not friends, and I usually ignore your rude and coarse manner as much as possible, which is apparently your usual "state" when posting on Pedelec.
So you are again letting your overly imaginative brain, get well beyond the bounds of normal, online good manners again.......Do you realise :-
That's exactly what internet trolls do!
By the way, just so you know, at the end of 2019 possibly, well over a year ago and before COVID, I was invited by a friend of mine who has a bike shop, to watch one of his guys use such a tester.
I asked why he needed it and he says it saves him massive amounts of time when searching for some problem types. Also, he had made adapters for all the bikes that he sells for the tester (he actually has more than one!) and he can often know within minutes exactly what the fault is....... As using meters, often needs far more time and sometimes 4 hands......his words not mine.
I have myself also bought one sometime last year, and other than testing the tester out that it works, I have not had a problem to try it out in ernest yet!
Also, e-bike testers are SO cheap nowadays, and even though I have several multi-meters, a capacitance meter, two 'Scopes and an inductance meter, and the knowledge as how to use them all, I still feel that it was worthwhile buying a tester, so that I can for example connect it to the motor harness and watch the motor fields and the switching of all the hall effect sensors - ALL TOGETHER - and still have hands free to spin the wheel and I only need to connect ONCE.
To do the same with a multi-meter, either I would need 6 meters to check three fields switching and Hall effects switching, to observe them all together (impractical and MOST expensive) or connect 6 times......which is time consuming at the very least and multiplies the number of errors that might be made!
I know that you prefer multi-meters (you do keep telling us all again and again!), but as you are "in the bike business", if I remember correctly, that does seem to be a huge waste of your time......but your personal choice of course!
What you appear to not understand is that many people want a simple "GO NO GO" clear indication, and do not wish to learn how to connect and interpret Meter signals and how different components react.....Which is their free choice of course......
What I simply cannot understand from your standpoint, is to keep telling people that a multi-meter is better, when many of them have not got the training or the background to use one! Of course if you made some videos and documentation available to assist them better, that would be a nice thing to do, but how and when?
Also, that a reasonable quality multi-meter will often cost 50 UK Pounds upwards, but these e-bike test meters start at around 10 UK Pounds, and even if it gets broken, most here will simply go and buy a new one and at around 10 pounds a pop, and still save money over a single meter......
Also, meters, even quality ones, can get quickly damaged by people on the steep learning curve of electrics and electronics! Ones who forget to select the proper range and/or polarity, for example, but that you never seem to mention for some reason.
Just so we are clear, I myself prefer to have BOTH, sorry ALL, types of test instrument available, "just in case!"
That is MY CHOICE! Do you have something against that? o_O:eek:o_O
Why are you always looking out for an argument of some sort, is your ego SO inflated as it appears to be here on the pages of Pedelec.
I do wish most sincerely and hope, that you manage to grow up and soon and learn some better manners and how to use them!.
Do have a great day - I am!:):):):):)
Andy
I wouldn't be able to look myself in the mirror if I caused people to waste their hard-earned money, but you don't seem to care.
 

vfr400

Esteemed Pedelecer
Jun 12, 2011
9,822
3,922
Basildon
Hi, I've just successfully tested the controller and it seems ok. I got the reading from .85 to 3.6 volts so I'm assuming that's a decent range. I tested the 5v rail and got around 4.8v. The main power source came to 53v which is conclusive. But the mosfet test proved negative. Yellow and green came to 15k with the red wire and 8k with the black wire which was ok. But the blue phase tested zero with red and slowly climbed to 8k with black (a very slow climb). The next test will require me to rotate the wheel so I will do that later when I can go outside.

f the next tests show the wheel to be working. then I can go ahead and buy another controller. I don't think I want to mess about swapping components.

Thanks for your help so far. It has all been worthwhile now I can see a clearer picture.
IF the hall sensors in the motor switch OK, you're good to go with a new controller. If they don't, there are still some options to get you going without having to replace the motor, but we'll sort that when you've confirmed the state of the hall sensors.
 

Andy-Mat

Esteemed Pedelecer
Oct 26, 2018
1,810
435
74
Thanks Andy. I'm not casting judgement at all. It was probably a good bit of kit. I'm the idiot blowing it up. It wasn't like 100 pounds or anything. Do you know of any way to repair it though, out of interest.
I wasn't judging you in any way, but difficult to tell online of course!
99.99% of Pedelecers are not judgemental, except for a very tiny number of "Trolls", they are all generally both helpful and friendly.
I was only sorry that you have lost (as in this case) a piece of very useful equipment.
I did look inside of mine a long time ago (simple nosiness only!), and it was very simply built, though I don't have it to hand at this time (misplaced it in the garage!), but it was just switches, resistors and a few diodes as I remember, so very, very simple.
I do not remember seeing any chips, though I have only looked in that particular one! Of course different designs will possibly use different components of course.
Why not carefully open it up and look in for damaged components and wiring? It may be easily repairable. Though burnt resistors are sometimes difficult to read if they got very hot, as the colours may either not be visible anymore, or may have changed their hue due to the heat and be unreliable with the eye. If it was simply a sudden flash, of a short though, they may all still be readable, if you are lucky!
Diodes, if blown, often retain their markings in visible form still! But as long as you can see the "Bar" marking clearly, you will know the direction it needs to be installed and I would guess that any of the low voltage 1n400x series will work. (provided you know the correct polarity.)
LEDs if blown, you need to observe the inner pieces, as this will tell you their polarity, like here:-
Its usually only the tiny wire that burns and without a microscope, you may not see any difference between a good and a bad LED!
Testing them with a battery and a resistor in series, one sized to keep current down to well below 10ma., will demonstrate if an LED is OK, and not harm them in a short test, if you get the polarity wrong.....
You can take some (clear) closeups of the inside and outside, and if anyone here has the same model, I am sure that they would be willing to send you a few clear photos to help you with repairs. You never know your luck.
I generally treat the testers in a very simple manner, ones with LEDs in a ring, that revolve for the wheel, in a very clear and obvious manner, and those with those LEDs in a line, which is less clear for those with less knowledge.
I try to recommend the circle of LEDs for that reason.....
The cheaper ones are often marked in Chinese, try and avoid those! Like this one of ebay.uk, unless you can read Chinese of course!View attachment 44025:-
I would say try this one at under 14 UK Pounds if yiou are unable to repair yours:-
Or see if anyone here can recommend a model and supplier for you.
Have a great day, and I hope that the unit is easily repairable for you, and we will (the 99.99% of us at least!) will try and assist you in any way we can!
regards
Andy
 

Albion

Finding my (electric) wheels
Jun 29, 2021
22
4
I wasn't judging you in any way, but difficult to tell online of course!
99.99% of Pedelecers are not judgemental, except for a very tiny number of "Trolls", they are all generally both helpful and friendly.
I was only sorry that you have lost (as in this case) a piece of very useful equipment.
I did look inside of mine a long time ago (simple nosiness only!), and it was very simply built, though I don't have it to hand at this time (misplaced it in the garage!), but it was just switches, resistors and a few diodes as I remember, so very, very simple.
I do not remember seeing any chips, though I have only looked in that particular one! Of course different designs will possibly use different components of course.
Why not carefully open it up and look in for damaged components and wiring? It may be easily repairable. Though burnt resistors are sometimes difficult to read if they got very hot, as the colours may either not be visible anymore, or may have changed their hue due to the heat and be unreliable with the eye. If it was simply a sudden flash, of a short though, they may all still be readable, if you are lucky!
Diodes, if blown, often retain their markings in visible form still! But as long as you can see the "Bar" marking clearly, you will know the direction it needs to be installed and I would guess that any of the low voltage 1n400x series will work. (provided you know the correct polarity.)
LEDs if blown, you need to observe the inner pieces, as this will tell you their polarity, like here:-
Its usually only the tiny wire that burns and without a microscope, you may not see any difference between a good and a bad LED!
Testing them with a battery and a resistor in series, one sized to keep current down to well below 10ma., will demonstrate if an LED is OK, and not harm them in a short test, if you get the polarity wrong.....
You can take some (clear) closeups of the inside and outside, and if anyone here has the same model, I am sure that they would be willing to send you a few clear photos to help you with repairs. You never know your luck.
I generally treat the testers in a very simple manner, ones with LEDs in a ring, that revolve for the wheel, in a very clear and obvious manner, and those with those LEDs in a line, which is less clear for those with less knowledge.
I try to recommend the circle of LEDs for that reason.....
The cheaper ones are often marked in Chinese, try and avoid those! Like this one of ebay.uk, unless you can read Chinese of course!View attachment 44025:-
I would say try this one at under 14 UK Pounds if yiou are unable to repair yours:-
Or see if anyone here can recommend a model and supplier for you.
Have a great day, and I hope that the unit is easily repairable for you, and we will (the 99.99% of us at least!) will try and assist you in any way we can!
regards
Andy
Thanks. At some point I will have a look at it. I opened it up shortly after the damage was done and got a burning smell that seemed to be coming from the diodes. It would be easy to desolder the contacts at one end and test them. But for now I think I'll just put it to one side and continue with my diagnostics the old fashioned way.

Best regards,
Alan
 

Albion

Finding my (electric) wheels
Jun 29, 2021
22
4
You don't provide a link to the listing.

I see that your ignition wire (thin red) is not connected. I'm guessing that's intentional. If you put a switch on that wire, you can switch the whole electrical system on and off with it. Any reliable low power switch will do. You won't need a switch on the battery then.

E10 is communicating error between the LCd and the controller, for which there can be a number of reasons. I think you should go back to basics and do all the normal tests and measurements which should reveal the cause of your problem. Set all the wiring back to how it was when you received the kit, then do the tests:

1. Measure the voltage at controller's battery connector. Obviously should be battery voltage. 36v - 42v for a 36v battery would be an acceptable range.
2. Measure the voltage on the 5v rail. You can measure that between any ground (black) and any of the reds going to throttle, PAS or motor halls. It should be around 5v.
3. Check throttle signal wire, which is the one that's not red or black. Should give about 1v to 4v when you twist the throttle. If there's more than one wire, your meter will find it. It's the one that's between 1v and 4v, assuming that it works.
4. Check that the PAS is pulsing. Measure the PAS signal wire while turning the pedals slowly. Should pulse 5v on and off every time a magnet passes the sensor. the signal wire is the one that's not red or black.
5. Check the motor hall signal wires (blue green and yellow) on the connector at the controller. They should each pulse with 5v going on and off as you rotate the wheel BACKWARDS.

6. Mosfet test. Disconnect the motor cable and battery from the controller. measure the resistance (200k scale) between the red battery connection and each of the three phase wire connections, then repeat with the black battert wire. eack set of 3 readings should be the same as each other and in the range 7K -22K. Though can be higher as long as they're all the same. Due to the capacitor across the battery wire, you can get a constantantly changing measurement while it charges. In that case, try swapping your probes round. Even though can be a moving result, the only important thing is that all three move in a similar way.

If your bike passes all those tests, it should work, so then you can look at any settings or other logical causes, like stuck brake switches, PAS installed backwards.

When checking whether the motor will work, always disconnect all unessential connectors, like PAS (if you have a throttle). lights and brakes.
Hi, hope you are well and thanks for your help so far.
I was just wondering about the motor hall signal test. Do I leave the 3 phase wires connected when I test for 5v pulsing. I know that the blue phase is not working because of damaged mosfets, so will it still give a reading at the hall sensors. I gues I'm measuring the voltage before it gets as far as the mosfets but I just wanted to make sure. I'm going to do the test tomorrow if the weather is ok so just wanted a heads up.
 

Albion

Finding my (electric) wheels
Jun 29, 2021
22
4
They're on a different circuit, so it makes no difference whether phase wires are connectecd or not.
Ok, tried the hall sensor test and it failed on all 3 phases. Also, when I connect the phases up I noticed the wheel is stiffer to turn. Thought I'd mention that too because I read that it means something.
 

vfr400

Esteemed Pedelecer
Jun 12, 2011
9,822
3,922
Basildon
Ok, tried the hall sensor test and it failed on all 3 phases. Also, when I connect the phases up I noticed the wheel is stiffer to turn. Thought I'd mention that too because I read that it means something.
That means that the phases are good if you connected them together, but If the motor goes stiff when you connect them to the controller, it means at least one mosfet in the controller is blown.
 

Albion

Finding my (electric) wheels
Jun 29, 2021
22
4
That means that the phases are good if you connected them together, but If the motor goes stiff when you connect them to the controller, it means at least one mosfet in the controller is blown.
But I didn't get the 5v when I turned the wheel backwards. Does that mean that the hall sensors in the wheel are blown? Just want to check I did the hall sensor test correctly. I tested it at the connctor where the green, blue and yellow wires (thin ones) go into the connector cage. I left the it connected while I did it. There are 3 thicker wires coming out of the controller that go to the wheel. Those I left alone. I put the negative probe on the black wire and positive on each of the three in turn whilst I turned the wheel backwards. But I got no result.
 
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vfr400

Esteemed Pedelecer
Jun 12, 2011
9,822
3,922
Basildon
But I didn't get the 5v when I turned the wheel backwards. Does that mean that the hall sensors in the wheel are blown? Just want to check I did the hall sensor test correctly. I tested it at the connctor where the green, blue and yellow wires (thin ones) go into the connector cage. I left the it connected while I did it. There are 3 thicker wires coming out of the controller that go to the wheel. Those I left alone. I put the negative probe on the black wire and positive on each of the three in turn whilst I turned the wheel backwards. But I got no result.
If you had 5v between black and red, the halls should switch when you turn the wheel. If they stay on 0v or 5v, they're dead.
 

Albion

Finding my (electric) wheels
Jun 29, 2021
22
4
If you had 5v between black and red, the halls should switch when you turn the wheel. If they stay on 0v or 5v, they're dead.
OK, I think I see. So I need to test the halls again between black and red? The stiffness test is just for the phases then.
 
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Albion

Finding my (electric) wheels
Jun 29, 2021
22
4
OK, I think I see. So I need to test the halls again between black and red? The stiffness test is just for the phases then.
I've just done it and it looks like the halls are no good. The reading just stays the same when I move the wheel.
 

vfr400

Esteemed Pedelecer
Jun 12, 2011
9,822
3,922
Basildon
Use logic. If the halls are stuck on 5v, you can reasonably deduce that they're shagged. If they're all suck on 0v, there's probably another reason, like no 5v supply.
 

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