ebike kit

[aseb]

After my last posting I think I'm at the point where I need to decide (and have the money) on whether to update my PowaByke X-byke or not. So much information received last time, but a bit of a recap and a few answers to ensure I don't mess up- I would have last time before the advice.

The X-Byke has a brushed motor which is great for all of the hills around here, but I could do with a bit more oomph for a few of the hills. Medical issues means little pedalling support from me, and on some of the hills I have to pedal to get up but need to stop at the top because of major aching.
The battery pack is marked as (only) 4.8Ah on the inside- even fully charged the indicator light drops very quickly at the hills. From what I've read increasing capacity should help? What effect would you think going to a 10Ah, or higher, pack would have on the hill climbing?

The motor in the X-Byke is brushed, what kind of mileage would you expect for the brushes where reliance is mainly on powered use? Anyone have a source for them and an idea of price- Powabyke pointed me to someone who hasn't answered my emails over the last couple of weeks.

The option I am still most seriously considering is changing to a brushless motor. The prices I've seen for the makers previously recommended (suzhou bafang and heinzmann) are higher- way higher- than the internet direct drive kits but after finding some torque figures I understand the choice. Alien have a kit with a Suzhou Bafang 8fun motor which looks interesting. Any thoughts, especially hill climbing? I want a kit without battery though so anyone with recommendations for a supplier?
How would this 8fun compare with a heinzmann, and how do you think performance will be compared to the brushed motor? Is there a different model I should look at?

Out of interest does anyone know who manufactures the powabyke motors? They have a Z with a circle around on the hub, but no name. Even flecc didn't know last time I asked!

Many thanks!

 

[Oxygen Bicycles]

Hi Aseb,

10Ah pack will have twice as easy job to do comparing to the 4.8Ah. I'm really not surprised that lights drop of when you ride it uphill, even with fully charged battery. I just feel so sorry for this battery as it looks like it does a discharge of more than 1C on the average.

With regs to the brushed motors, Heinzmann is absolutely superb despite its old fasion brushed design. However because its German brushes seem to work for years on the ebike. With Chinese brushed motors I would be more sceptical here.

Another Heinzmann advantage is that it peaks at 33A current, just to compare Bafang peaks at 16A current so with HM you can get over 1kw in the peak. At the start I would have to say that 4.8Ah battery from Powabyke probably wouldn't cope well with delivering such a high current so you would need really large battery for that motor. Than larger you get than better it will cope with current delivery. Also original HM batteries were Nimh which indeed can deliver good currents. I would however recommend to to go for large lithium based.

If you want cheap and good brushless motor then 8Fun is the one, hope that helps

best regards

Andrew

 

[flecc]

Also original HM batteries were Nimh which indeed can deliver good currents.

Actually NiCads, the last to use them, though as you say, the current delivery was excellent with those. If only today's batteries were so able to deliver without limit, regardless of capacity.
.

 

[eddieo]

Ezee (from Onbike) have the reputation of having some of the most powerful hub motor bikes and kits on the market.......

 

[flecc]

Ezee (from Onbike) have the reputation of having some of the most powerful hub motor bikes and kits on the market.......

Ye gods!

Eddie recommending eZee? Have I died and gone to heaven?

 

[NRG]

Hi Aseb,

10Ah pack will have twice as easy job to do comparing to the 4.8Ah. I'm really not surprised that lights drop of when you ride it uphill, even with fully charged battery. I just feel so sorry for this battery as it looks like it does a discharge of more than 1C on the average.

With regs to the brushed motors, Heinzmann is absolutely superb despite its old fasion brushed design. However because its German brushes seem to work for years on the ebike. With Chinese brushed motors I would be more sceptical here.

Another Heinzmann advantage is that it peaks at 33A current, just to compare Bafang peaks at 16A current so with HM you can get over 1kw in the peak. At the start I would have to say that 4.8Ah battery from Powabyke probably wouldn't cope well with delivering such a high current so you would need really large battery for that motor. Than larger you get than better it will cope with current delivery. Also original HM batteries were Nimh which indeed can deliver good currents. I would however recommend to to go for large lithium based.

If you want cheap and good brushless motor then 8Fun is the one, hope that helps

best regards

Andrew

Actually the Bafang will peak at more than 16amp, it depends on what controller you use it with....mine is 21amp and the motor has no problem pulling that...

 

[eddieo]

Ye gods!

Eddie recommending eZee? Have I died and gone to heaven?

Your memory is nearly as bad as the chief's?

when I first joined the forum many moons ago looking for advice, the ezee was at the top of my list, probably thanks to you.....but unfortunately they were turbulent times and new distributer in Brighton where hopeless IMO (as proven later when they lost the business as well) Sooooo I went for a Wisper and very happy that I did! I will eulogise re Wisper later

But aseb is looking for more power and the ezee seem to offer this and may be right for him..........Now where is that T1

 

[eddieo]

Flecc!.........are you OK?

 

[flecc]

Your memory is nearly as bad as the chief's?

when I first joined the forum many moons ago looking for advice, the ezee was at the top of my list, probably thanks to you.....but unfortunately they were turbulent times and new distributer in Brighton where hopeless IMO (as proven later when they lost the business as well) Sooooo I went for a Wisper and very happy that I did! I will eulogise re Wisper later

But aseb is looking for more power and the ezee seem to offer this and may be right for him..........Now where is that T1

I did remember Eddie, just couldn't resist teasing!

As you say, that was no time to try eZee, but things do seem to be settled now and I agree that is a very powerful kit.
.

 

[aseb]

So I guess the thing to do is to try with a higher capacity battery before buying a different motor. I have to say I was surprised at the low capacity marked on the pack. I was a very early buyer when battery was going to be water bottle shaped and I'm sure a higher capacity was mentioned, and before the mods made to the bike that could really improve things like one revolution of the pedals before starting- mine does 3 which causes me pain at times. I might try aralditing an array of small magnets on the rotor on the pedal sensor sometime (I think that's how it works but will check first) to fool it into thinking I've pedalled 3 times.
Anyhow I'm going to try the bigger battery option before buying a kit.

I guess the lack of comments about mileage for brushes means it is a long life- which is good news.

Thanks for all the comments.

 

[flecc]

So I guess the thing to do is to try with a higher capacity battery before buying a different motor.

I guess the lack of comments about mileage for brushes means it is a long life- which is good news.

Wise move, the Powabyke motor is among the most powerful if the supply is adequate.

Don't worry about the brush wear, that Powabyke motor has a wider spread of dealer knowledge than any other e-bike due to it's ten year existence with a network of dealers, some of them as approved service centres. They can carry out a brush change very easily.
.

 

[aseb]

Wise move, the Powabyke motor is among the most powerful if the supply is adequate.

Don't worry about the brush wear, that Powabyke motor has a wider spread of dealer knowledge than any other e-bike due to it's ten year existence with a network of dealers, some of them as approved service centres. They can carry out a brush change very easily.
.

Got to my dealer says he has never needed to change the brushes and he's been there for decades. I did get a price from a different guy (Berni Commerford at www.bikesandbatteries.co.uk) today- a surprising (to me anyway) £24 plus postage, but certainly acceptable. It's probably just a perception thing, it's not something I have any experience of, combined with a memory that goes back to florins, half crowns and tanners. Very quick reply from him too!

 

[Patrick]

and before the mods made to the bike that could really improve things like one revolution of the pedals before starting- mine does 3 which causes me pain at times. I might try aralditing an array of small magnets on the rotor on the pedal sensor sometime (I think that's how it works but will check first) to fool it into thinking I've pedalled 3 times.

There is a way of completely removing the need to pedal before the motor kicks in, Frank Curran said in this thread

Just to add, all Powabykes can have their sensor over ridden by adding what we call a disabler. This will turn the bike to a twist and go bike meaning you can do away with the bottom bracket sensor.

...contact your local dealer and just ask for a 3.3 disabler and adaptor for your XByke and they can order one for you. SRP is £19.99 plus fitting which is 10 minutes work.

 

[aseb]

There is a way of completely removing the need to pedal before the motor kicks in, Frank Curran said in this thread

Yes, got one. Poorly designed and not inspiring confidence. It uses rather thin wires which are delicate- I had to resolder when it didn't work- one of the feed wires had snapped at the point it connects to the small circuit board (and the wire was very thin with very few strands. It's not very weatherproof- the black heat sealed covering wasn't good on mine but had to be cut away to repair the connection. And all this before fitting.
The wires run to a small unprotected plug, then a crossover cable puts the wiring in the correct pins, again unprotected. I do not have confidence in its longevity even when carefully insulated-it needs to be because it has to be externally mounted somewhere in the region of the bottom bracket. If it could be mounted in the control box it would become a safer option to take.
If any cable becomes broken you get no pedal support at all- it needs to be repaired before you get the motor to do anything.

 

[fishingpaul]

Actually NiCads, the last to use them, though as you say, the current delivery was excellent with those. If only today's batteries were so able to deliver without limit, regardless of capacity.
.

Flecc i would be interested in your thoughts on a123 batteries,i have so far only tried a short hill climb just to test out a pack,a 36v 2.3 ah pack powered my torq up one of my steepest hills with ease, seemingly exceeding the power of my 36v 14ah lead acids, losing 11kilos of lead acid weight probably helped as well,i was so impressed i now have more packs on order.

 

[andrewgardner]

Flecc i would be interested in your thoughts on a123 batteries,i have so far only tried a short hill climb just to test out a pack,a 36v 2.3 ah pack powered my torq up one of my steepest hills with ease, seemingly exceeding the power of my 36v 14ah lead acids, losing 11kilos of lead acid weight probably helped as well,i was so impressed i now have more packs on order.

As would I.
The 10ah battery on my Alian kit is a good battery 40 miles plus no problem at an average speed of just over 20mph with a fair amount of effort from me and still one green light showing. But with the battery being on the rear rack the tail wags the dog a bit.
I am considering making up two packs of a123 2300ma to fit in water bottle type containers 2.5amp ish per pack in parallel because for short distance riding that's all I need.
And I would hope the handling would be a bit better on corners with the batterys being more central in the frame and lower down.

 

[flecc]

Flecc i would be interested in your thoughts on a123 batteries,i have so far only tried a short hill climb just to test out a pack,a 36v 2.3 ah pack powered my torq up one of my steepest hills with ease, seemingly exceeding the power of my 36v 14ah lead acids, losing 11kilos of lead acid weight probably helped as well,i was so impressed i now have more packs on order.

I have no personal experience of them Paul, but all who try them are very impressed with the large current delivery ability as you've shown. I imagine the working life much depends on how the cells are set up with a suitable BMS if they are to be charged en masse.
.