EBMA files an anti dumping complaint on chinese e-bikes.

[Wisper Bikes]

I assume you have visited an e-bike assembly plant?
It isnt that expensive to set one up,a runway with vertical posts,they build them on their side.£10k would probably do it.
KudosDave

We are looking into it now, I am off to Romania in a couple of weeks and we have already been offered manufacturing in Slovenia. It’ll cost a bit more than £10,000 though! Building bikes in Europe won’t be that tricky and wages in Eastern Europe are the same if not lower than China now. The real problems are two fold:

1. The threat of the same dumping tax going onto components, although as Tony says some parts are available here in Europe but no where near what the industry will need at the price we need to pay to keep prices down.

2. The value of the £ is set to crash as the forecast Brexit inflation and deal/no deal problems set in. And of course we may not be able to trade with Europe without high tariffs anyway.

Setting up in the U.K. and suffering the effects of anti dumping may be the only way forward. IF we manage to find willing labour here.

Whatever happens, if antidumping does come in EBikes will be a lot more expensive than they are now. Bikes coming in from Asia do have an effect on European manufacturers, they keep them competitive, if we lose Asian supply, the big two or three bike builder’s cartel will be able to immediately raise prices and of course they will.

As I have previously said, this is all about boosting the big European bike builders’ profits. Nothing else.

What a mess!

 

[Wisper Bikes]

for those interested in import duty: all codes beginning with 8714 are levied at 4.7%

frames, forks, rims, spokes, hubs, brakes, saddles, pedals, cranksets, handlebars, stems, derailleurs, Lithium ion battery are all at 4.7%
The e-bike motor (code 8501 31 00) is levied at 2.7%

http://www.bike-eu.com/laws-regulations/artikel/2010/4/import-duties-on-non-eu-bicycles-1018983

Now, who wants to invest in an e-bike assembling plant?

Let’s talk!

 

[KTM Bike Industries UK]

We are looking into it now, I am off to Romania in a couple of weeks and we have already been offered manufacturing in Slovenia.

If you're seriously looking, I can put you in touch with the people at the KTM factory in the Czech Republic, they currently build bikes for a number of EU and UK brands. I've no idea of the costs, but looking at some of the companies that use the facility it must be competitive.

 

[Wisper Bikes]

If you're seriously looking, I can put you in touch with the people at the KTM factory in the Czech Republic, they currently build bikes for a number of EU and UK brands. I've no idea of the costs, but looking at some of the companies that use the facility it must be competitive.

Thanks Col, that’s very kind. Please drop me a line. David@amps.bike

All the best, David

 

[topographer]

Who is in this big bike builder's cartel?

 

[Kudoscycles]

We are looking into it now, I am off to Romania in a couple of weeks and we have already been offered manufacturing in Slovenia. It’ll cost a bit more than £10,000 though! Building bikes in Europe won’t be that tricky and wages in Eastern Europe are the same if not lower than China now. The real problems are two fold:

1. The threat of the same dumping tax going onto components, although as Tony says some parts are available here in Europe but no where near what the industry will need at the price we need to pay to keep prices down.

2. The value of the £ is set to crash as the forecast Brexit inflation and deal/no deal problems set in. And of course we may not be able to trade with Europe without high tariffs anyway.

Setting up in the U.K. and suffering the effects of anti dumping may be the only way forward. IF we manage to find willing labour here.

Whatever happens, if antidumping does come in EBikes will be a lot more expensive than they are now. Bikes coming in from Asia do have an effect on European manufacturers, they keep them competitive, if we lose Asian supply, the big two or three bike builder’s cartel will be able to immediately raise prices and of course they will.

As I have previously said, this is all about boosting the big European bike builders’ profits. Nothing else.

What a mess!

The problem is making any decisions at the moment based upon political decisions by our government could be completely wrong...
1. We could stay in the EU and the commission may reject the anti-dumping duty complaint....in which case we stay as we are.
2. We could stay in the EU and the commission agrees with the complaint but puts only a modest dumping duty....probably still best to stay as we are,with small price rises.
3. We could stay in the EU and the commission puts on a 55% anti-dumping duty....need to look to elsewhere to manufacture,inside the EU would be OK provided the manufacturer observes the rule of origin percentages. But if heavy tariffs between the EU and UK then Slovenia would be a bad move,also the £ is very weak against the Euro.
4. We could leave the EU but stay in the custom Union,in which case 1-3 still apply.
5. We could leave the EU ,come out of the customs union but to get a free trade deal with the EU we could agree to all the current EU tariffs....that would be a logical solution to the Irish border problem but would still allow us to do trade deals with other countries,this would also allow us access to the other countries that the EU already has deals with,in which case 1-3 still apply.
6. We could crash out of the EU,the WTO rules force us to put tariffs between the EU and the U.K.,don't know what they would be.....but I cannot see how the EU is going to allow an open border in Ireland,where the south is paying 55% tariff and the north zero....May may choose to keep the tariffs going to protect the EU and our assemblers in the UK and pocket the money or she may make it tariff free from the world,in which case you would regret leaving China.

It's going to be very difficult to make a decision where to manufacture until this Brexit nonsense and the dumping duties are sorted out...I am keeping good stocks and wait until some certainty develops.
If you think we have problems imagine if you are a food importer from the EU,you could be looking at 35 % average duty and food degrades a bit quicker than a bike !!!!
KudosDave

 

[flecc]

Who is in this big bike builder's cartel?

The two big bicycle making groups in Europe are Accell and Pon Holdings, both Dutch. The Accell brands list is on this link.
The Pon brands on this link.
.

 

[topographer]

The two big bicycle making groups in Europe are Accell and Pon Holdings, both Dutch. The Accell brands list is on this link.
The Pon brands on this link.
.

Thanks for that. It's a bit of a messy industry. I like to know who comes from where. Haibike – German but owned by Dutch and sounds vaguely Japanese. Confusing.

 

[anotherkiwi]

Hai means "shark" in German...

 

[flecc]

Thanks for that. It's a bit of a mess industry. I like to know who comes from where. Haibike – German but owned by Dutch and sounds vaguely Japanese. Confusing.

Likewise Kalkhoff, German but owned by Dutch group Pon Holdings.

Most confusing of all is Raleigh, with rights to the name owned in and bikes from England, The Netherlands and Germany.

And of course Dutch owned brand Kalkhoff is part of German company Derby Cycles gmbh who were founded by and once owned by Raleigh UK, hence the Derby name present in Germany and now The Netherlands.

This is an industry that need it's own historian to keep track!
.

 

[Crockers]

Hai means "shark" in German...

Is that referring to the manufacturers of the dealers

 

[topographer]

Hai means "shark" in German...

Why am I not surprised?

 

[topographer]

Likewise Kalkhoff, German but owned by Dutch group Pon Holdings.

Most confusing of all is Raleigh, with rights to the name owned in and bikes from England, The Netherlands and Germany.

And of course Dutch owned brand Kalkhoff is part of German company Derby Cycles gmbh who were founded by and once owned by Raleigh UK, hence the Derby name present in Germany and now The Netherlands.

This is an industry that need it's own historian to keep track!
.

It's hard to care about Raleigh anymore. Foreign owned—do they even have a HQ and design competency in the U.K.?—and apparently their customer service aint too great.

 

[anotherkiwi]

I am too scared to go to Germany now, I mean with all those sharks around which inspired the marketing dept to pick a name like that...

My first (and only until quite recently) brand new bike was a Raleigh and at that time (mid 1967) all bikes were imported from the UK. The NZ govt reduced import quotas and by the 1970's 90% of bikes were made in NZ. Asia won in the late 80's when import quotas were lifted.

Now I can't be more on topic with a snippet of history like that can I?

 

[Woosh]

Let’s talk!

the problem is the survivability of such a project.
You will need to have a target of producing about 100 bikes a day, 20,000+ a year. I think if you start with a much smaller number, say 25 a day, you can't afford R&D and without R&D, there isn't a future.

 

[Wisper Bikes]

I think you are right Woosh. 10,000 bikes a year would be the minimum threshold and we are no where near that yet.

We are looking at a series of options including teaming up with our existing Chinese partners, so they do the buying and sourcing in China and together we set up bike building in Europe to fulfil a number of brand's needs.

It also seems that Taiwan will not be caught up, so our high end bikes will be fine. We are also talking to our Taiwanese partners about manufacturing our city and trekking models. Although this may push prices up by about 10%.

We have also made contact with existing bike builders in Europe.

I have learned over the last couple of days that the chances of components being subject to anti dumping is not as high as with completed bikes and "European" manufacturers can register to become exempt from duty.

Although this is all a bit disruptive, I feel as long as importers from China act now we can use this to our advantage.

As Dave points out, Brexit is the fly in the ointment as far as getting it all sorted out early. I think for the time being we have to assume that the WTO tariffs will apply between Europe and UK.

At the moment building in the UK is the only option we are not giving a lot of time to. The expense of building here, the relatively low numbers involved and the difficulty in finding labour, is going to be prohibitive. Of course if and when the £ takes another tumble this may change.

All the best, David

 

[anotherkiwi]

Here is a man who "gets it":

http://www.bike-eu.com/home/nieuws/2017/10/thun-ceo-calls-for-affordable-bikes-as-basic-transport-mode-10131752?utm_source=Vakmedianet&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=20171019-bikeeurope-std&tid=TIDP308477X1D51E963BEFC488FABF78770F464BA56YI4

I totally agree on his viewpoint, affordable but not cheap transport has been my goal since my first bike conversion. I tend to buy quality components where they are needed an entry level where that is enough. I hope bike manufacturers catch on. Last night I saw a Decathlon entry level e-bike and was horrified by the brakes they put on it. Skimping on the quality of tyres and brakes is putting users lives at risk.

 

[Wisper Bikes]

I totally agree on his viewpoint, affordable but not cheap transport has been my goal since my first bike conversion. I tend to buy quality components where they are needed an entry level where that is enough. I hope bike manufacturers catch on. Last night I saw a Decathlon entry level e-bike and was horrified by the brakes they put on it. Skimping on the quality of tyres and brakes is putting users lives at risk.

I completely agree with you Kiwi.

 

[Wisper Bikes]

Just heard that the the EC have now confirmed that they have accepted
the AD complaint re e-bikes and are investigating:

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-eu-china-bicycles/eu-opens-investigation-into-chinese-e-bike-imports-idUSKBN1CP17F

All the best,

David

 

[Wisper Bikes]

BRUSSELS (Reuters) - The European Commission on Friday launched an investigation into the import of electronic bikes (e-bikes) from China after European producers complained that they are being sold at excessively low prices with the help of unfair subsidies.

The European Bicycle Manufacturers Association (EBMA) lodged its complaint in September, saying that Chinese companies were flooding the EU market at prices sometimes below the cost of production.

The Commission, which oversees trade policy among the EU’s 28 member states, said in a filing in the EU’s official journal there was sufficient evidence to justify the start of an anti-dumping investigation. It would be concluded within 15 months.

The EBMA is also preparing a related complaint alleging illegal subsidies and asking for registration of Chinese e-bike imports, which could allow eventual duties to be backdated.

Such an investigation would be the latest in a string of probes into Chinese exports ranging from solar panels to steel and could raise trade tensions with Beijing, particularly with a subsidy inquiry into the support provided by the Chinese state.

China’s commerce ministry said it would defend its companies’ interests and urged the EU to respect World Trade Organization rules, telling the EU not to let its investigation lead to protectionism.

Bicycles have already been a flashpoint. The EU accused China last December for scuttling a global environmental trade deal by insisting that bicycles be included as a tariff-free green product. Chinese conventional bicycles have been subject to EU anti-dumping duties since 1993.

The EBMA said more than 430,000 Chinese e-bikes were sold in the EU in 2016, a 40 percent increase on the previous year, and forecasts the figure will rise to around 800,000 in 2017.

The group said European companies had pioneered the pedal-assist technology that e-bikes use and had invested about 1 billion euros ($1.2 billion) last year, but was risking losing its industry to China.