ECO Exibition

[Vennwood]

Hi All,

I'm been pondering which e bike to buy and was flipping between used and new. The thought being better quality used or lower quality new. However I soon got bogged down with technology and battery life so now pretty much discounted used. That leaves me with another problem - which bike to go for IN MY PRICE RANGE. I've shortlisted the Woosh Krieger (out of stock) but just noticed this http://expedition-bikes.co.uk/product/e-bike/electric-e-bike/ Is there anyone with experience or views of this? I like the low (ish) weight but struggling to find any real details like battery make, tyre size etc.

 

[Nealh]

The details are 36v 10ah and the bike has 26" wheels otherwise can't see any other details. Tyres are Kenda's so probably 1.9 - 2.1".

 

[Vennwood]

That's the problem - lack of detail. Even downloading the instruction leaflet doesn't give any further info. It would be nice to know things like
1. What is the make of the battery and the full type (there are different types of Lithium)?
2. What size are the tyres – it only mentions 26 inch.
3. Are the tyres “puncture resistant”?
4. What warranty is on the battery?
5. What type of controller do you use?
6. Is it throttle or thumb control?
I emailed the company but the response was to refer me to the web site. Not a brilliant response.....

 

[Croxden]

My system will not allow me access to the page due to "drugs, alcohol or tobacco".

Sounds interesting.

 

[Nealh]

Vennwood put your list of queations in an email to them, must be contacts on there for them some where.

 

[mfj197]

Have you tried calling them? They say on their site "Have a question? Call us 01634 926123" - maybe they would be able to give a better response by phone. Certainly looks an interesting bike.

Michael

 

[Vennwood]

Well I emailed them the questions and here is their response verbatim:

The battery is not a named brand. The factory where we have our bikes manufactured specialise purely in the manufacture of high quality electric bikes and as a result produce their own batteries in house which are far superior to other batteries you will see fitted to other e-bikes for this kind of money. The batteries are purpose built for use on our electric bikes.
They are lithium polymer type batteries
The full information on the tyres is 26 x 1.95
The tyres fitted are not puncture resistant, however they can easily be changed to puncture resistant should you wish, or you could fill them puncture resistant slime. Ive not tried it myself, but I’ve heard some fairly good things about it
The battery and the motor have a 1 year guarantee, however if cared for correctly then you will far exceed this time frame anyway
Im not sure how to answer question 5 about the controller type, however I can tell you that the controller restricts the speed to 15mph and unlike other controllers our bike introduces the pedal assistance very gradually.
The majority of e-bikes jult and shoot off when the pedal assistance kicks in, this puts a lot of strain on the motor al of a sudden as it goes from off to full power in an instant. As a result the riding experience does not feel natural neither is it predictable. It can also be a pain if you are riding through pedestrians to suddenly shoot of. Our bikes built the power in gradually so the experience feels more natural and puts less strain on the motor giving you more life out of the bike.
The bike features a twist throttle (similar to the type found on motorcycles) instead of a thumb throttle

Not very encouraging but it may be that the guy doesn't know or hasn't been long in the game. I had hoped for a more technical set of answers. The battery reply doesn't fill me full of confidence though...

On a brighter note I've been out this morning "test riding" Giant bikes as our local dealer had several really good offers. I eventually came to the conclusion that pedal assist alone (as in Giant) probably wouldn't suit either of us as with bad knees the only way to get the Giants going was to exert lots of pressure on the peddles. I accept that today wasn't a fair test as there were no hills to try out on. I think that a combination of the two - pedal and throttle would suit us better.

 

[JohnCade]

If the power comes in progressively - or with a significant lag in other words - as he says then a throttle might be a good idea. It can be impossible to get started on a hill if power is not instantly available. Getting safely across traffic is not so clever either.

I had a speed sensor bike which had significant pedal lag and used the throttle in those scenarios. I now have a torque sensor bike without a throttle but which has almost no lag, and I can start on very steep hills without any problem.

 

[Vennwood]

I guess my problem, certainly with the Giant, was the amount of effort I needed to get going on the flat never mind a hill. Even on "sport" setting there was no surge of power - in fact I couldn't tell the difference. My wife would never be able to use this type to get moving on a hill. Its difficult to make a judgement on the ECO Exhibition as the info appears so "woolly" I guess its the sort of bike you really need to see and try.

Presumably a torque sensor recognises the effort used and applies power to suit.That may be OK however this wasn't the case with the Giant Twist Lite. It was better on the Talon E+1 however the gears were so smooth in comparison to our current non electric bikes. I guess I need to test out a few other types first. Its a pity that Woosh are so far away as I would love to try one of those. I was impressed with the quality of the Giant though. Definitely built to last.

 

[flecc]

Giant bikes are generally very good quality, but their e-bikes are usually on the low powered side. Their main export market is the Netherlands where the Dutch have little in the way of hills to cope with and favour that kind of e-bike.
.

 

[JohnCade]

I guess my problem, certainly with the Giant, was the amount of effort I needed to get going on the flat never mind a hill. Even on "sport" setting there was no surge of power - in fact I couldn't tell the difference. My wife would never be able to use this type to get moving on a hill. Its difficult to make a judgement on the ECO Exhibition as the info appears so "woolly" I guess its the sort of bike you really need to see and try.

Presumably a torque sensor recognises the effort used and applies power to suit.That may be OK however this wasn't the case with the Giant Twist Lite. It was better on the Talon E+1 however the gears were so smooth in comparison to our current non electric bikes. I guess I need to test out a few other types first. Its a pity that Woosh are so far away as I would love to try one of those. I was impressed with the quality of the Giant though. Definitely built to last.

Woosh did advertise a scheme where you could try out a bike if you lived near an owner who was willing to demonstrate it. It was on the website. How about a Kudos dealer? They have a few around the country.

 

[Vennwood]

Woosh did advertise a scheme where you could try out a bike if you lived near an owner who was willing to demonstrate it. It was on the website. How about a Kudos dealer? They have a few around the country.

I did contact Woosh and they said that the owner demonstration scheme has fallen through. I will look up Kudos but I don't know anything about them

 

[flecc]

I will look up Kudos but I don't know anything about them

Kudos are a very soundly based company and backed by the Rallye Design company who are prominent in the car sport industry. The boss of both is a regularly posting member and known in here as KudosDave, actual name Dave Elderfield.

Kudos Cycles
.

 

[Cyclezee]

Hi Venwood,

You might like to take a look at what we have to offer and if you see anything that interests you let me know if you require further information. http://www.cyclezee.com/

 

[Vennwood]

Kudos are a very soundly based company and backed by the Rallye Design company who are prominent in the car sport industry. The boss of both is a regularly posting member and known in here as KudosDave, actual name Dave Elderfield.

Kudos Cycles
.

I've looked up about Kudos and have a couple questions
First - the web site says for weights up to 100kg when I am unfortunately 110kg - would this invalidate the warranty?
second and more importantly the owner of a Kudos Cobra wrote that it didn't go up hills very well and that the motor "groaned" under stress

Anyone got any comments?

 

[trex]

you should have said earlier - 110kgs, you are in Big Bear territory! if the Bear is good for one thing, that'll be shifting weight!

 

[Vennwood]

you should have said earlier - 110kgs, you are in Big Bear territory! if the Bear is good for one thing, that'll be shifting weight!

Good point - that is one reason for looking at crank drives as I understand they are better for hills

 

[JohnCade]

Good point - that is one reason for looking at crank drives as I understand they are better for hills

I was going to suggest a BB but I thought you were set on CD. d8veh will take issue with you on CD being better for hills no doubt. The BB will go up hills pretty well many of its satisfied heavy owners say. They can’t all be wrong.

 

[mfj197]

I tried a Kudos Typhoon 29er last year - did about 80 miles on it, all told. It's hub drive and uses a speed sensor not a torque sensor, but it took off from the line like a scalded cat. No delays or hanging about at all. It didn't matter what gear you were in of course, it just registered the pedals were starting to turn and applied full afterburner. However if you are pointing uphill and want immediate power a throttle can do it of course.

Michael

 

[Vennwood]

Thanks for that Michael and JohnCade,

With the sort of cycling I'll be doing I can't see that either crank or wheel drive will be that critical provided that either can get up reasonable hills. I was leaning towards crank drive, based on my very limited experiences gained some 8 years ago when I had a front wheel drive folding bike with no gears. The bike was solid and weighed over 30kgs with a 180W motor and a lead acid battery (I think it was 2 AA batteries in disguise) It just wouldn't go up even slight slopes and of course with 10 inch wheels and no gears your little legs were going at 50 to the dozen. I pushed it more than rode it so don't want to make the same mistake again.

As I said earlier I'm thinking that a throttle would be a benefit (particularly in my price range) instead of pedal assistance only as I found the Giant Twist Lite (pedal assisted only) wouldn't help on those times when I ran out of steam on a hill where the Giant wanted me to tell it how much power I wanted by pedalling harder - and I couldn't. Does that make sense or did I not give it a good enough of a test? Certainly the more expensive Giant Talon E+ was much better and would suffice but then it was almost £2000 I guess its how good the electronics are in applying power and when and that again comes down to price