Electric Kits for Touring Bikes ?

[Rab C Nesbitt]

Hi
Firstly, apologies for this thread appearing here - I'm having trouble trying to open a thread in the Techie area (or the site sussed out I was too thick to join the techie bit) - if this needs moved, then no problem.

I'm trying to tap into the forum's knowledge and experience of kits for larger wheel sizes. I may have to go back to my beloved Co-op Tourer (pic below) as my recently purchased Alien Titan has been such a success with the rest of the family, that I may have to pass it on to my wife. This was my first foray into the wonderful world of e-bikes and after a mere one week commuting and 100 miles, I'm totally hooked. Whilst I'm delighted to let my missus have the bike to rejoin the cycle fraternity, it will leave me with no e-bike.

My wheel size is 28" x 1 5/8 x 1 1/4 but most of the kits I've seen appear to major on 26" wheel size with 100mm between the front forks which seems almost an industry standard for MTB and hybrids - however, I think the space between my forks may be slightly smaller than that.

Grateful to have your thoughts, experiences and any comments

Rab

 

[frank9755]

I think a steel-framed tourer like that would make an excellent bike to electrify.

There are a few things to think about

Firstly which motor. There are two that I'd consider. First the Suzhou Bafang, as used in the Alien kits, Wisper and other bikes. They seem to be the best all rounders, and very reliable. Bob/Alien may not do them in a 700c wheel but you could source one direct and get a bike shop to build you a wheel. If you're feeling adventurous you could try a Tongxin. That would produce a better result, hardly compromising the cycling qualities of the bike at all. However the Tongxins have had reliability issues in the past, which may or may not have been resolved. I'm sure you could stretch your forks slightly to accomodate the motor.

Secondly, speed of motor - do you want it for hill assistance or high-speed cruising?

Thirdly, how do you control the power? A twist throttle isn't ideal with drops. The buttons on the Cytronex are a neat solution, but I don't know of any kit offering that. I'd go for pedelec and a thumb throttle, mounted somewhere near to the hoods.

Good luck and let us know how you get on!

 

[flecc]

No, this is the right place for nearly all queries Rab, the Technical section being administered for fairly permanent items.

The kit that leaps to mind is the Tongxin Nano one, since that comes in a variety of rev per minute versions to cover all size wheels. I've never used one, but think the 190 rpm would be for outright speed circa 20 mph, by that best in a fairly flat area. To be more legal and have some hill climb ability, a better choice might around 160/170 rpm, I'm not sure exactly what that step is. Others who've used these will be able to advise that better.

The big problem has been getting hold of one though. They've stopped dealing direct, and the agent, Tony Castles at nanomotor.co.uk, has been impossible to contact. However, Smiths Cycles reckon to be able to get them, and they also have some of the Suzhou Bafang 8fun motors of the kind fitted to the Wispers etc. Although suited to 26" wheels, those are powerful enough for 28" if you don't have very steep hills in your area.

P.S. Crossed with Frank's post.
.

 

[The Maestro]

Bob from Alien made me a special order of the 36V kit in a 700C wheel. I've not had any issues with it and have covered around 1500 miles so far. I've not seen any Tonxin nano configurations that produce anywhere near the peak power output of the Alien kit but I may have missed them. I also don't think that the freewheel is that bad, although you can obviously judge for yourself as you already have an alien I did a test on my alien equiped bike against a standard Schwinn moutain bike, taking both up to 15 mph and then free wheeling on the same flat road on the same day. The alien equiped bike actually freewheeled quite a bit further. Not a great test as the Schwin had quite knobbly tires, but I don't think its that bad really.

 

[frank9755]

Just building on the other comments, motor speed is the most important decision to make. It really depends on two things - how much power you intend to put in - which varies greatly between cyclists, and how hilly your main riding terrain is.

If you don't want to pedal much and/or live in a very hilly area, do go for a low speed motor (160/175), which will get you to 15mph or thereabouts. If you want to go a bit faster (and are willing to bend the rules a bit) you could try a faster motor speed, but anything above 190 rpm is not going to give good hill climbing. A Suzhou Bafang will perform better, being more powerful, while the Tongxin is likely to be damaged by too steep a hill as its roller drive is more fragile.

Some examples: There's quite a few Alien kits around, although I don't know the motor speeds. I've fitted a 260 rpm Tongxin to a 700c wheel, which gives assistance up to about 24mph on the flat. Another member, John, has a similar configuration and HarryB, I recall, has a 190 rpm in one of his bikes, which he reports giving good all round performance and assistance up to maybe 18-19mph.

 

[Tiberius]

Hi Rab,

That does indeed look like a good candidate bike. Don't ignore the option of a rear hub motor, though. The Suzhou Bafang is available in rear hub version; I don't know about the Nano.

I'm looking for a bike like that for my next conversion - I want a tourer rather than an outright road bike and I want drop handlebars. But I want 26" wheels, to keep compatibility with the bits and pieces I've got already. Any ideas?

I still have to come up with a good solution for the throttle on drop bars. I wonder about a modified brake lever - push to go, pull to stop?

Nick

 

[frank9755]

Good point, Nick - Suzhou Bafang works well as a rear wheel. The Tongxin rear wheel version is not offset so doesn't allow you many gear options (probably only a 3-speed). Really its only practical as a front wheel. However as it is so small and light, it looks and feels ok in the front wheel.

 

[Rab C Nesbitt]

Frank/flecc/Maestro/Tiberius

Many thanks for your replies and taking the time to post them. Re Frank's point about how I would use the motor - I know quite a few people in the forum get agitated about top speeds but I'm not really too worried these days about hitting the highest speed possible, as my boy racer days are well behind me and to be honest, I feel just great pedalling along the flat at 15-20mph. In fact, I haven't "derugulated" the Titan as it more than supplies what I need for my commute with long slow hills rather than any Matterhorns.

I'll look further into all your suggestions but my heart says that a 700c from Bob/Alien (if available) would be suit me if for no other reason than the thought of tinkering too much with the rear wheel scares the bejasus out of me.

I'll let you know if I start building anything and go into "A-Team" mode (you know, where they build an anti-aircraft gun out of pipecleaners and old guttering)
Cheers

Rab

 

[Andrew harvey]

Smiths cycles link

The link Flecc refers to has been edited.
I apologise for any inconvenience it may have caused.
I discovered Smiths Cycles in Kidderminster might be for sale on the Sunday of the Prestigne rally.
In an eager moment I decided to start on a web site. Bear in mind I have little idea of what I'm doing, I intended to include links to other sites, (that's what the book recommends), hence the mention of the Nano kit.
The web site is flagged as under construction and has been since day one.
I was not aware that it could be accessed or viewed by anyone else yet.
Currently the purchase of the shop is in the limbo land of solicitors.

I have been trying for a few weeks now to source some Tongzin motors myself, (for my new bike), I believe there is a good reason for Tony Castles apparent absence but I can not discuss matters that don't concern me directly.
The Tongxin 100mm rear motor will accept a 5 speed cluster, but the shaft is only just long enough. It will also accept a disc brake. To see the motor in situ you can follow Fleccs link.

The rear wheel Suzhou Bafang motors will generally accept either a 7 speed cluster or a disc brake with 6 speed. If you fit a 26" into a 700 rim you get a slight speed increase but very little reduction in torque, (less than 10% either way).

I've used the Cycleman kits they appear to be the same as the Alien referred to elsware in the thread, (the same kit in the same box in the pictures). They are generally good. Although Chinese produced, they are geared for the American market and hence say they have appropriate quality control. I seem to remember that they had either an American engineer or owner involved.
Unless they have changed there is a minimum order of about 25 units, so Alien is probably your best bet.

The one point to note is that some of the Suzhou Bafang motors use larger gauge spokes than is the norm, standard bicycle spokes can pull through the holes on the rim. I've seen a view mentions of that with regard to the Urban Movers on this forum.
If you get the 26" motor any good cycle shop could change it into a 28" rim but do not let them fit washers to the spokes instead of using the right gauge spoke, they are available but the might have to come from a motor bike shop.
They should also if you want be able to dish the rear wheel, it makes a neater job, and is no where near as difficult as people think.

 

[flecc]

Thanks for the information on Smiths Cycles Andrew, I found the site when doing some deep mining in Google.
.

 

[joab]

EZEE has a kit for 700c. I'm using it. I have 2000 miles on it now. I commute 22 miles per day on one battery load.
I'm very happy with it.
Jo

 

[Saddlesore]

This thread has posed an interesting solution to my dilemma with my ill fated Lightning electric bike which is still in bits. I'm particulary interested in the comments regarding the Suzhou Bafang rear wheel option - is this obtainable as a kit or do you have to get the motor built into a rear wheel and does a controller come as part of the package. I'm thinking I could replace the existing 180 w brushed motor with an S.B unit and retain the 6 speed shimano rear cassette.
Can anyone give me advice on this and contacts / prices etc? - thanks.