Electric Transport-Charging Times-what am I missing.

[Deleted member 4366]

With a lot of these things, you shouldn't consider it as the cost of the vehicle, but instead, it's an investment in the future. The same as electric cars. Everybody that buys one should be congratulated for providing the money that will enable continuous development in the technology that will eventually give us a better alternative to fossil fuels. I see battery technology going like PC CPUs, where performance steadily increases over the years to levels never dreamed of. It just takes investment in R&D and a strong demand for the product. Electric cars are right on the brink of being useful for many of us. I predict that in 5 years time, they'll be serious contenders.

 

[John F]

Unfortunately, if we do all end up driving around in electric cars in 5 years time, we might end up having to choose between driving and lighting our houses but not both.

With a lot of these things, you shouldn't consider it as the cost of the vehicle, but instead, it's an investment in the future. The same as electric cars. Everybody that buys one should be congratulated for providing the money that will enable continuous development in the technology that will eventually give us a better alternative to fossil fuels. I see battery technology going like PC CPUs, where performance steadily increases over the years to levels never dreamed of. It just takes investment in R&D and a strong demand for the product. Electric cars are right on the brink of being useful for many of us. I predict that in 5 years time, they'll be serious contenders.

 

[trex]

We'll burn more fuel to generate electricity and less diesel on the road.
ev shifts the polution out of our towns and cities, it does not change the overall power consumption.

 

[flecc]

With a lot of these things, you shouldn't consider it as the cost of the vehicle, but instead, it's an investment in the future. The same as electric cars. Everybody that buys one should be congratulated for providing the money that will enable continuous development in the technology that will eventually give us a better alternative to fossil fuels. I see battery technology going like PC CPUs, where performance steadily increases over the years to levels never dreamed of. It just takes investment in R&D and a strong demand for the product. Electric cars are right on the brink of being useful for many of us. I predict that in 5 years time, they'll be serious contenders.

I'd like to think this will come true, but I very much doubt it. I think manufacturers and politicians will probably compromise with true hybrids like the GM Volt/Ampera and Chinese BYD, capable e-cars giving enough rechargeable range for most journeys (circa up to 60 miles), but their inbuilt small auxiliary ic engine then cutting into give the occasional long journey capability.

This solution is technologically easy, has low enough selling prices, greatly reduces consumer fossil fuel usage, is within current battery capability and covers consumer motoring needs. In addition overnight charging for this partial e-use when electricity demand is low greatly reduces the huge generating capacity expansion that pure e-cars will demand.

 

[trex]

local liquid metal storage batteries could be a near term solution for fast charging station. These batteries have immense potential and can be topped up whenever the energy cost is low.

example: fast charging 500Kwh @ 30p = £15, bought from grid @ 15p = £7.50 profit per charge - it's not bad return for 10 minutes.

I think Tesla has the right strategy, that explains the recent enthusiasm for their shares. On longer term (30-50 years), Toyota's strategy looks good. Whichever way you look at these solutions, ICE must be retired inside towns and cities. Vietnam has just announced their new project of adding 100,000 e-bikes a year to displace the traditional Honda 125cc mopeds. It will have a long way to go, the country has something like 20 million mopeds.
http://evavietnam.org/
If Vietnam can do this, expect Inda to follow then the price of Lithium batteries will crash.

 

[Blew it]

That TOYOTA i-ROAD looks like a whole lot of fun....I'll 'ave one!

[video=youtube;p4ZnaDE4Fxk]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p4ZnaDE4Fxk#t=131[/video]

Yes I know, it's a clever bit of CGI

 

[peerjay56]

That TOYOTA i-ROAD looks like a whole lot of fun....I'll 'ave one!

Yes I know, it's a clever bit of CGI

Ooh, do I not like that, as Graham Turner would have said.

 

[flecc]

That TOYOTA i-ROAD looks like a whole lot of fun....I'll 'ave one!

Yes I know, it's a clever bit of CGI

I like the Renault Twizy, no CGI but here now and fun to drive. Just a pity about the British climate, makes it impractical.

,

 

[peerjay56]

I like the Renault Twizy, no CGI but here now and fun to drive. Just a pity about the British climate, makes it impractical.

Indeed - doors are sold as an extra. Nevertheless the Langdale Hotel in the Lakes has some to loan to guests. Apparently they're very popular.

 

[Geebee]

We'll burn more fuel to generate electricity and less diesel on the road.
ev shifts the polution out of our towns and cities, it does not change the overall power consumption.

The polution per kw is vastly lower than that produced by an internal combution engine due to higher efficiencies of scale, also most of the polution data I have seen for cars is for new cars, not all countries test for it after purchase making the figures much worse than indicated where as power station output is monitored.

You also have the option of a couple of solar panels to compensate, plus across the world there are cleaner power sources which will help lower polution further, ie. my electricity comes from hydro generation.

 

[flecc]

Indeed - doors are sold as an extra.

Still not much use in the UK though Phil. Park it in rain and one comes back to a puddle on the seat. In cold and windy weather it can become painful very quickly. No heater of course and using the windscreen defroster and wipers reduces the already short range.

Great in the south of France or California, but here might as well buy a scooter, all the same disadvantages at a third of the price.

 

[Geebee]

That TOYOTA i-ROAD looks like a whole lot of fun....I'll 'ave one!


Yes I know, it's a clever bit of CGI

Real world test ride.

[video=youtube;HiZS1y0I_3E]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HiZS1y0I_3E[/video]

 

[Blew it]

So, it really exists....fascinating machine. Ariel Atom definitely off my wish-list now.

I wonder why the driver walked away so quickly, was he sea-sick?

Thanks for posting.

 

[flecc]

Same trouble as the Twizy though, useless in our cold and wet weather. Heating is a real problem with e-cars, either there's none or fossil fuel heaters have to be used, negating some of the green credentials.

Shortly I'll be hopping into my car and within minutes as I leave the estate there will be heat pouring into the cabin. In our climate as I get older that's a benefit I'm unwilling to lose. There's nothing like being chilled through with dead fingers to make one feel, "stuff the environment".

 

[Geebee]

Um, no most modern electric cars have electric heaters, obviously with the exception of the above 2

 

[flecc]

Um, no most modern electric cars have electric heaters, obviously with the exception of the above 2

I know, but they do horrible things to the already inadequate range so aren't practical to use to a desirable extent in very cold weather. For example:

Nisan Leaf, realistic range new when independently tested in good and fairly easy conditions just over 70 miles. On a cold and very wet day with heater, demister and wipers running all the time that could drop to as low as 50 miles. In years 3, 4 and 5 the drop in battery capacity could easily knock up to 25% off that to get it down to below 40 miles. On the basis that one daren't run out of juice with an e-car, that means about a 30 mile journey is the limit, 15 miles each way.

And none of this is calculated for a very hilly area where current drain will rise sharply.

£32,000 for that in a small hatchback? No thanks.

 

[Geebee]

It depends on your requirements
I agree that electric cars are to expensive ATM.
My wife never drives more than 15 km return trip and very rarely that far.
They looked at bringing the Reeva (GeeWiz) here several years ago and its RRP was to be somewhere in the $6,000.00 au area, it would have been perfect for a her and the cheapest car on the market but our laws require the same safety requirements for a Quadricycle as any full sized car so they were banned.

 

[flecc]

I did try a G-Wizz but on hills it was pathetic, reduced to a crawl it just upset all the other drivers.

That was a part of a very serious investigation into getting a "town" e-car for my local journeys, which are similar to your wife's usage, but in the end I had to conclude it would be daft.

The Twizy was out of the question in Britain's climate and I didn't want to sign into ever increasing battery rental costs which are a trap. That meant the Nissan Leaf versus the i.c one litre town car I was also thinking of.

Leaf £32,000; i.c car £6000, both brand new.

Leaf charging station £800 plus at least £1500 to get electricity to my slightly remote garage; i.c. car nil.

Leaf recharge hassle every use; i.c. car I fill up at between 2 to 3 months intervals.

Leaf at 5 years value nil since £16,000 battery almost spent; i.c. car worth £1000.

Leaf new battery at 6 years £16,000; i.c. car 6 years petrol barely £1400.

All at today's costs, you can see the problem, even with much higher mileage the comparison is very unfavourable, and e-cars aren't really capable of very high mileages due to the short daily range. There is a £5000 government grant for buying the Leaf at present, but that still doesn't help much.

So the i.c car was a no-brainer, not because I couldn't afford the e-car but because I'd be stupid to buy one in these circumstances.
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