Falming From a Bike. wind noise/ vibration

[lemmy]

I've started a new thread on this recurring subject to bring a few separate threads together.

I have put a movie of a ride round Richmond Park on Youtube [video]http://bit.ly/ktf8Yz[/video]

I have made comments on the video as I cycle round the park (not without incident, by the way )

A few notes. The stereo mic on the camera is on the top plate and thus only 6 inches or so from my mouth. With this and the wind noise suppression turned on in the movie option menu, sound seems to be as good as is needed. I have the mic input setting on the camera set to 3/4 but 2/4 would probably be enough.

If you want really good commentary sound I'd suggest recording it separately and adding it in while editing the video.

On vibration, I think the set-up I've used just about solves the problem. As I observed before, I doubt any camera would survive long if clamped directly to the bike structure and any non gyro controlled shock damping would give too much jiggling. The human body is a very effective shock absorber!

A method I may explore is using some kind of shoulder mounted frame, a la Bob Dylan harmonica holder. The beauty of filming from chest level is that you get a the bars in frame which gives you an 'involved' feeling, putting you yourself in the riders position.

The helmet mounted cameras are great for filming car atrocities but it's an un-involving, rather utilitarian point of view (in my opinion, of course).

The biggest difficulty with chest mounting is keeping the camera horizon level as you pedal. I may slip a camera spirit level in the accessory shoe to correct it now and again but in the videos I've posted it doesn't seem to me to be a critical problem.

I've reposted the two pix showing the setup below.

Now just off to meet Quentin Tarantino. He wants to produce my next movie -

Richmond Park 2 - The Pedelec Unleashed

 

[eddieo]

nice film...shame about the cars! Sound very good and camera work decent enough as well. We may cycle around there this Sunday if we dont go away the weekend in new van......seems to be lots of parking around the place?

so was that all around the park? sawyers hill - queen rd - priory lane?

 

[10mph]

Lemmy: Super film, well done. Played it in the background while doing my emails just now.

I want that kit when I can afford it. Could you provide a shopping list? It would be very effective for recording my measurement rides, but I might need several memory cards sufficient for about 3 hours recording.

 

[timidtom]

Most impressed! My attempts so far immortalize either broad swathes of sky or fuzzy tarmac ... voice nice & clear, even when faced by short sighted car drivers. Odd that cyclists in your neck of the woods seem to avoid greeting one another. Maybe it's because oop ere in't North West we're more of an endangered species? (Certainly seems that Warrington Council is determined to keep us that way! Honestly, two-way cycle lanes one metre wide ...)

 

[lemmy]

nice film...shame about the cars!

Yes, isn't it. I never normally go to the park on a sunny weekend for that reason but I wanted to try out the video. It's nothing like that in the week outside of rush hours or on weekends when the weather is dull.

Yes, it was all the way round, about 7 miles I think. There is also the perimeter track (the one I point out in my 'commentary' which is very pleasant.

timidtom, no, usually cyclist around here don't greet one another but there are quite a lot now so maybe, as you say, that's the reason. The cycle lanes around here are pretty useless, too but the council do try. It's just that the roads are set up from the start with the car as king. Logical, I suppose, since most traffic is four wheelers.

10mph, the camera is a Panasonic GF2 which comes with either a tiny 14mm lens, which I have used here, or a 14-45mm zoom. I think that might be a bit nose heavy for the job.

I use 1280x720 in SH quality mode AVCHD with a 16gb SD card. That would give about 2.5hours recording. You can get 32gb cards for £30-40 on Amazon.

BUT note that the longest time you can use for one unbroken sequence is 30 minutes. This is because of EU legislation. And it must be in AVCHD format to do that. A dedicated movie camera is not so restricted since it pays the extra EU tax (why?) levied.

The Gorillapod is an SLR type at about £30 with a ball and socket head at about another £30.

I'm a retired professional news and magazine photographer who now contributes to online agencies, so I've always had a good selection of fairly expensive quality equipment. But I reckon that, without compromising much on results, anyone can do what I've done here much more cheaply.

For photographing from a bike low level light performance and critical lens sharpness is not that important.

Admin: I've mistyped Filming a falming in the title - would it be possible to correct it, please?

 

[lectureral]

Oh, filming - my guess of the m mistyped for the l, giving Falling From a Bike. wind noise/ vibration did not seem to make much sense at the time.

 

[lemmy]

Do you think I should repost it without the typo? How I missed that I don't know.

 

[lectureral]

Not at all - sorry, I was just amused at my original confusion.

 

[aaannndddyyy]

Having the right bike setup can elevate camera shake this is a video with my camera on the bars.bike is pictured in the Gallery.
YouTube - X5 5304 Ebike, Keyring camera DVR 720p HD.

 

[lemmy]

Yes, that works ok, doesn't it?

I certainly wouldn't want to put my camera through hours of shaking through the bars, though. Vibration is one of the few things, apart from sand, that easily damages a modern camera. This from long personal experience.

I also find the viewpoint a bit unsatisfactory. it's fine for accident evidence, say, but a bit uninvolved from a film point of view. You need something to give a sense of the vehicle and perspective in my opinion which is why I include the bars.

By the way, you are riding on the pavement and I have you bang to rights. You're nicked, sunshine

 

[allen-uk]

A few observations and questions.

The mount obviously works very well, even over the corrugated iron, so well done for that invention/adapation. The limitations of not being able to see left and right don't matter much, except when you're commentating about something happening out of shot.

What's the problem with the focus, though? Your previous epic, To the Shops on a Kalkhoff Tasman, had clear views from the bars to infinity. This latest one has fuzzy bars, and not too brilliant long-distance shots. Similarly, the exposure on the 'Shops' was nice and crisp, both in the shadows and the brilliant blue sky, whereas Richmond Park looked decidedly murky. Do you have any (pre-ride) control over these?

Must be a far nicer ride during the week or early in the mornings - bit like sodding rush hour when you went!

How did you know the van driver was Polish? And was the woman in the silver car at Richmond Gate also from that way?

A.

 

[lemmy]

Interesting observations, A, thanks. The focus...yes, I was a bit mystified by that myself and it's taken me while to get to the bottom of it But here goes...

If you use autofocus, the focus hunts around, homing in on a car in front, then to infinity, then to a cyclist in front's backside and so on. So manual focus it is. My intention was to set the camera to the hyperfocal distance but that it quite difficult to judge since the GF2 doesn't let you choose the aperture to film at, doing it automatically. However, a 'feature' of the GF2 is that a focussing scale comes up on manual on the LCD screen, marked from closeup to infinity - except that infinity is not at the infinity mark. it is about 1/3 scale back from it. I put it on infinity...hence everything is out of focus

Not believing that could be standard, I asked on a couple of photo forums about it and...it is 'normal' behaviour for the camera.

The van, it had Polish registration and Polish signs all over the sides. Also, traders from the London area know that trade vehicles are not allowed in the Royal Parks and the parks police regularly nick them if they do.

The BMW on the first roundabout and the Merc on the second, both British registered.

I probably would have ditched this sequence given the technical quality but it had enough incident in it to make it interesting, I thought.

This is only my second try so I still have a lot of experimentation to do and experience to gain.

 

[allen-uk]

Thanks for the reply. I've got a Lumix (although it's got the big wide-to-zoom lens), and I'm thinking of trying out your 'system' myself. I'll let you know if I solve any of the problems.

A

 

[dmcgoldrick]

hi lemmy....impressive non shake filming and good sound. obviously a good set up you have come up with.
interesting how you became 'invisible' to cars when you were on roundabouts.......and some of those cars overtaking you looked far too close for comfort. i think i would have been on the cycle path you pointed out....
will look up the camcorder you used ...looks interesting

regards

 

[lemmy]

Allen, yes I have the 14-140mm zoom but it tends to fall forward because it makes the camera too nose heavy.

Dave, normally the drivers are much more considerate than this. Just at a busy time at the weekend, I guess, not that that is any excuse.

 

[morphix]

Great filming Lemmy, very smooth and camera angle spot on! My own thinking on camera mounting matches your finding, that body mounting is the way to go..I have found the shoulder better than the chest for the problem you mentioned (getting the camera angle/horizon right).. the only problem with shoulder filming though is that if your camera lens is at the top of the camera (Flip style) you end up with Mr Chin popping in now and again ;-) I'm currently working on finding the optimal height and making a permanent pocket on my hi vis. I guess it depends on what sort of camera you have really for chest v shoulder...

 

[lemmy]

guess it depends on what sort of camera you have really for chest v shoulder...

Yes, the proper movie cameras tend to be cylindrical in form so would suit mounting across the shoulder where the still camera is better on the chest.

One big difficulty I find is with framing the shots precisely. In neither shoulder nor chest position can you see the finder properly. I have the eye level finder with my GF2 so in chest position can swivel it up to 90degrees to check framing. But it's not very satisfactory, involving something of a contortion. I wear gasses, too, which doesn't help.

There is a remote screen device for SLRs which relays the V/F screen image to a remote LCD screen a few inches across. That would be ideal, with the LCD mounted on the bars but it's around £300 and I still wouldn't guarantee how long it would last with the constant vibration and shock it would get.

 

[aaannndddyyy]

Here is a different way to connect a camera to an ebike

First the cheaper £4.50. 808 #8 (720x480) Keychain camera no sound as I broke the speaker trying to mod the sound quality
[video=youtube;N3w7zN_v1V4]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N3w7zN_v1V4[/video]
And next the #11 £26.00 HD Keychain camera
[video=youtube;6MK2vjhaU5E]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6MK2vjhaU5E[/video]

 

[kitchenman]

Here is a different way to connect a camera ...

Inspired! ... Excellent stuff. You probably know whats coming ... how bout front and rear views in the utube doubler? ... If you don't I will! ...

What bike do you have?

 

[kitchenman]

Inspired! ... Excellent stuff. You probably know whats coming ... how bout front and rear views in the utube doubler? ... If you don't I will! ...

What bike do you have?

Ah! .. Ok ...just googled it! ... its a Hot Chilli X-Rage 5304 frame ... and you have kitted it up? ...