First look at the new Woosh FB Six

[Woosh]

This is the first sample, I can still make changes, your opinion is most welcome.

Draft specifications:

Bafang MaxDrive 350W
48V 12AH or 48V 15AH battery
Hydraulic brakes front and rear

Target price: £1,299 - £1,399 (depending on battery size) including delivery.

 

[Rouge Rider]

Quite a nice looking bit of kit actually

 

[redcup1999]

That looks awesome.

I imagine that Max Drive at 48V would be pretty damn good.

I am impressed with Max Drive at 36V - what is the current limit on the controller?

I think you are hitting the right sort of price point there.

Will there be a "non-fat" (diet?) version of this bike by the end of the year?
A non-fat with hub gears would make a great commuting bike.

 

[Woosh]

I am impressed with Max Drive at 36V - what is the current limit on the controller?

20A-25A max

Will there be a "non-fat" (diet?) version of this bike by the end of the year?

I don't know. The problem for us is derestriction. A road version of 48V x 25A MaxDrive is sure to be a magnet for s-pedelec speed, it's not what we want to do.

 

[redcup1999]

20A-25A max

I don't know. The problem for us is derestriction. A road version of 48V x 25A MaxDrive is sure to be a magnet for s-pedelec speed, it's not what we want to do.

Agreed - even 48v x 20A would have the potential to support assisting way faster than the UK legal limit.

Well done on bringing in a MaxDrive bike - I think this will surprise a lot of people when they have the chance to ride it, as long as the programming is correct

 

[Wisper Bikes]

We have been looking at this motor too. Is it not 500W nominal and therefore illegal in Europe?

All the best, David

 

[Woosh]

Is it not 500w nominal and therefore illegal in Europe?

Bafang don't describe the power of their controller in nominal wattage.

 

[Wisper Bikes]

I was with them in the factory two weeks ago. They told me this motor was 500W. If you've found a way around the rules, that's great news. Please would you share? Did the EN15194 certification go OK?

All the best, David

 

[Woosh]

I was with them in the factory two weeks ago. They told me this motor was 500W. If you've found a way around the rules, that's great news. Please would you share? Did the EN15194 certification go OK?

All the best, David

I have not put this bike through certification process yet.
I don't think it is going to be a problem though, the maximum the motor can deliver is limited by the controller.
The interface is easy to program the motor to deliver what you want.
I am more worried about the 48V as we usually make 36V bikes.

 

[Wisper Bikes]

48V x 25A = 1.2kW. As a rule of thumb for the nominal Power you can divide by two then knock off a further 10 to 20%. So 500W nominal would be about right?

All the best, David

 

[Wisper Bikes]

Please let me know how you get on.

All the best, David

 

[Woosh]

48V x 25A = 1.2kW. As a rule of thumb for the nominal Power you can divide by two then knock off a further 10 to 20%. So 500W nominal would be about right?

All the best, David

The controller can deliver that sort of power but it will be programmed to something more sensible.

 

[Wisper Bikes]

OK

The EN certification testing will be interesting. If you can get away with this sort of power, well done to you. It will open the floodgates for very powerful bikes in the UK. If there is anything I can do please let me know.

All the best, David

 

[Woosh]

It will open the floodgates for very powerful bikes in the UK.

The problem is not so much increasing power but derestriction which puts me off making more crank drive bikes.
Imagine someone 'upgrades' the battery of your bike to 48V.
Even Bosch can't stop derestriction of their bikes so what chance do I have?
I wonder if you suffer from derestrictionitis too?

 

[Deleted member 4366]

If Bafang stamp the motor "250w" you're home and dry. If they stamp it "500w", you have no chance.

 

[Woosh]

If Bafang stamp the motor "250w" you're home and dry. If they stamp it "500w", you have no chance.

I am aware of this.
The choice is simple: if I fit a lower spec motors, most of my customers will still reprogrammed it anyway and when the motor breaks, will they tell me 'sorry, I derestricted it' or 'sorry, I reprogrammed it'.
If I fit the best motor and programmed it for lower Amps, the motor is less likely to break.

 

[Wisper Bikes]

We

The problem is not so much increasing power but derestriction which puts me off making more crank drive bikes.
Imagine someone 'upgrades' the battery of your bike to 48V.
Even Bosch can't stop derestriction of their bikes so what chance do I have?
I wonder if you suffer from derestrictionitis too?

We certainly do. IMO the rules are daft. By all means restrict to 15.5mph but to limit the "nomininal" power to 250W Is ridiculous and is pretty well uninforcable. 1kW max power would make far more sense.

As Dave says, it's all down to the manufacturer's stamp.

My worry is as more and more of us take advantage of the obvious loop hole. The day will arrive when the MCIA or similar jump on the power issue and pursuade the government to be more specific. If the powers that be specify 250W max, as they may well do, the ebike market is screwed.

Regards, David.

 

[Kinninvie]

The power of an ebike motor shouldnt come into it at all.
Wether a bike has 250 watts or 10,000 watts if its limited to 15.5 Mph then thats all it will do.
It will just get to max speed quicker and keep the speed on steeper hills.

 

[anotherkiwi]

Is your motor the MM G330.250? If so it is a 250 W motor. So is the MM G360.250 PAS only motor which takes up to 60 V (1500W at 25 amps), now that is getting my palms all sweaty...

Yesterday I saw a wood frame e-bike in S.Sebastian (didn't have the camera...) and it had a 350W stamped Bafang(?) hub motor. Road frame, aero wheels (green of course!), drop bars, the whole nine yards... So I guess for private land use only, maybe a pace bike for track racing? Or maybe just "to hell with EU pedelec laws"?

 

[Woosh]

Is your motor the MM G330.250?

No, it's a G330.350

That's why I said it's a MaxDrive '350W'