Following on from my introduction to this forum I have questions

[saneagle]

You get what you pay for in Ebikes. Anything less than £1500 is not going to cut it. Less than £1000 and your starting to scrape the barrel. Less than £500 - junk, I'm afraid.
Z

Are you sure? Mine costs £1100 and has been brilliant for 9 years and over 7000 miles. In that time, one gear cable, two chainrings, one set of disc pads, one cassette, two chains and two batteries were replaced. The batteries weren't worn out. I bought new ones for increased capacity so that I could make longer journeys at full power.

When I was an ebike mechanic, I probably fixed more that cost over £1500 than under, and the cheap ones that I fixed were mainly very old or had accident damage. Generally, the cheaper bikes are extremely robust and reliable. The more you pay, the faster your components wear out, and the more expensive they are to replace.

 

[LesG]

You get what you pay for in Ebikes. Anything less than £1500 is not going to cut it. Less than £1000 and your starting to scrape the barrel. Less than £500 - junk, I'm afraid.
Z

Zoros, I think you should change vocation, you'd make a good grief councillor lol.
The bike was £799 new I believe, I did buy it second had as I mentioned and I also said in my original post that you get what you pay for, I was not expecting miracles with it, but neither is it junk

 

[LesG]

Are you sure the charger is suitable for the batteries, maybe the first owner had to replace the original charger?

Thanks Brik, I have two batteries and the two chargers are exactly the same sort, so unlikely I feel, I will swap over next time so that the same charger is not charging the same battery

 

[zoros]

I'm in a bike club - an ebike club. Apart from the fact that ALL of those with bikes that cost less than £1500 have motors of 60Nm and less (most have 50Nm), the motors are from less well known manufacturers and have less robust warranties.
The level of equipment is mediocre to say the least and above all else, components (like the chains/control units) have been the subject of failure too often.
Like anything in life (on average), you get what you pay for.
I've done 4000 miles in 3 years - apart from brake pads, nothing has ever gone wrong with my bike and it looks and feels like new. The battery is still offering over 90% capacity on the diagnostic readout. Range still varies between 85 miles on 'ECO' and 35 miles on 'TURBO'.
They're no different from cars or even washing machines.

My battery replacement costs are >£500. If I saw an Ebike for sale for £400....guess what?

 

[saneagle]

I'm in a bike club - an ebike club. Apart from the fact that ALL of those with bikes that cost less than £1500 have motors of 60Nm and less (most have 50Nm), the motors are from less well known manufacturers and have less robust warranties.
The level of equipment is mediocre to say the least and above all else, components (like the chains/control units) have been the subject of failure too often.
Like anything in life (on average), you get what you pay for.
I've done 4000 miles in 3 years - apart from brake pads, nothing has ever gone wrong with my bike and it looks and feels like new. The battery is still offering over 90% capacity on the diagnostic readout. Range still varies between 85 miles on 'ECO' and 35 miles on 'TURBO'.
They're no different from cars or even washing machines.

My battery replacement costs are >£500. If I saw an Ebike for sale for £400....guess what?

Complete and utter blinkered rubbish.

Torque has no relationship to price.

Expensive equipment is generally light, not robust. A cheap steel cassette will always outlast an expensive lightweight one. Mediocre components is the way to go if you want problem free long life.

I keep telling you electric bikes do not have ranges. The range is determined by the rider. Ask yourself how much range does a non-electric bike have.

How much does your diagnostic test cost to find the capacity of the battery? How much does it cost to service your bike compared with the zero cost that most Cyclamatics get in their lifetime?

 

[zoros]

I like a good discussion!

You said:
Torque has no relationship to price.
My turn to say 'rubbish'! You will NEVER be able to buy a new ebike with >60Nm for less than £1000.

Expensive equipment is generally light, not robust. A cheap steel cassette will always outlast an expensive lightweight one. Mediocre components is the way to go if you want problem free long life.
Let's agree to disagree.

I keep telling you electric bikes do not have ranges. The range is determined by the rider. Ask yourself how much range does a non-electric bike have.
What on earth are you on about? If I do a lot of hill climbing (especially where I live) or I want to do a 50 mile trip - I have always referred to my range remaining to determine when to call it quits.
I was talking about ebike range, not normal bike range. The reason I bought the damn thing was to negotiate these steep hills and to do long distances - something I couldn't do previously without getting absolutely knackered. How many 'normal' bikers do 50 miles a trip? How many 'normal' bikers do major inclines one after the other (snowdon national park)?? If you are a professional biker or super fit then of course range doesn't matter but now I'm getting on, I can't maintain that sort of endurance without the ebike.
Have you tried cycling a 23Kg push bike without assistance?? Of course range information is essential.

How much does your diagnostic test cost to find the capacity of the battery? How much does it cost to service your bike compared with the zero cost that most Cyclamatics get in their lifetime?
One service a year £85 all in. Includes diagnostics/battery efficiency/software updates/any gear adjustments/ brake adjustments and general condition.

What is a 'cyclamatic'? Is it an asthmatic with a bike?
Z

 

[flecc]

What is a 'cyclamatic'? Is it an asthmatic with a bike?

It was a well regarded very cheap pedelec at one time, could even be performance boosted and many in this forum had one. I believe they could be bought for under £300 at times from one of the Sports shops.

Here's an example:



And here's one with lots of upgrades, disc brakes,
downtube battery etc:

 

[saneagle]

I like a good discussion!

You said:
Torque has no relationship to price.
My turn to say 'rubbish'! You will NEVER be able to buy a new ebike with >60Nm for less than £1000.

Expensive equipment is generally light, not robust. A cheap steel cassette will always outlast an expensive lightweight one. Mediocre components is the way to go if you want problem free long life.
Let's agree to disagree.

I keep telling you electric bikes do not have ranges. The range is determined by the rider. Ask yourself how much range does a non-electric bike have.
What on earth are you on about? If I do a lot of hill climbing (especially where I live) or I want to do a 50 mile trip - I have always referred to my range remaining to determine when to call it quits.
I was talking about ebike range, not normal bike range. The reason I bought the damn thing was to negotiate these steep hills and to do long distances - something I couldn't do previously without getting absolutely knackered. How many 'normal' bikers do 50 miles a trip? How many 'normal' bikers do major inclines one after the other (snowdon national park)?? If you are a professional biker or super fit then of course range doesn't matter but now I'm getting on, I can't maintain that sort of endurance without the ebike.
Have you tried cycling a 23Kg push bike without assistance?? Of course range information is essential.

How much does your diagnostic test cost to find the capacity of the battery? How much does it cost to service your bike compared with the zero cost that most Cyclamatics get in their lifetime?
One service a year £85 all in. Includes diagnostics/battery efficiency/software updates/any gear adjustments/ brake adjustments and general condition.

What is a 'cyclamatic'? Is it an asthmatic with a bike?
Z

This one gives about 100nm for less than £500.

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So, your servicing costs without the cost of the spare parts they will tell you you need will be approximately £800 in the time that mine cost zero.

I've been ebiking for 12 years. I've done every type of journey up to around 85 miles in a day. Yes I have pedalled a 28 kg bike 42 miles without switching it on, and when I finally switched it oin 42 miles from home, it didn't work. luckily I was able to do a roadside repair. There's a forum post about it somewhere around 2012. Anybody can do it. It's just a question of speed, gearing and time. The difference between an ebike and a normal one is more the higher average speed than the pedal effort. Many of us pedal with the same effort (around 100w) regardless of the type of bike we ride.

I think you've got some figuring out to do. don't worry, you'll get there eventually if you don't give up.

 

[saneagle]

I'm in a bike club - an ebike club. Apart from the fact that ALL of those with bikes that cost less than £1500 have motors of 60Nm and less (most have 50Nm), the motors are from less well known manufacturers and have less robust warranties.
The level of equipment is mediocre to say the least and above all else, components (like the chains/control units) have been the subject of failure too often.
Like anything in life (on average), you get what you pay for.
I've done 4000 miles in 3 years - apart from brake pads, nothing has ever gone wrong with my bike and it looks and feels like new. The battery is still offering over 90% capacity on the diagnostic readout. Range still varies between 85 miles on 'ECO' and 35 miles on 'TURBO'.
They're no different from cars or even washing machines.

My battery replacement costs are >£500. If I saw an Ebike for sale for £400....guess what?

The problem when you're in a club is that you all psych each other up into thinking you need something more than you actually do.

It was a well regarded very cheap pedelec at one time, could even be performance boosted and many in this forum had one. I believe they could be bought for under £300 at times from one of the Sports shops.

Here's an example:

View attachment 52390

And here's one with lots of upgrades, disc brakes,
downtube battery etc:

View attachment 52391View attachment 52391

Lets bring back the beastamatic thread. They were happy days. All those forum members. where are they now?

Cyclamatic: The Beastamatic is dead! Long live the Beastamatic

I'm sorry to hear that the Beastamatic is temporarily dead. I'm sure that it'll be alive and well again soon, but in the meantime its spirit will live on in the Beastamatic II. Mine arrived today - much quicker than I expected. Here's what I got. It took me about 20 mins to put it...

www.pedelecs.co.uk

To be honest, if a Cyclamatic was the only available ebike in the world, I'd be happy with it, but I'd change the battery to 36v and solder the shunt up to 18A, and fit a DNP 11/34 freewheel for more comfortable pedalling. That would be a nice bike for about £550, but there are actually better ebikes at the same price on Ebay now. Maybe it's time to do another Beastamatic thread.

 

[Woosh]

This one gives about 100nm for less than £500.

you need a sizable 48V 30A+ controller for 100NM. That bike has 350W motor.

 

[joelectric]

I'm in a bike club - an ebike club. Apart from the fact that ALL of those with bikes that cost less than £1500 have motors of 60Nm and less (most have 50Nm), the motors are from less well known manufacturers and have less robust warranties.
The level of equipment is mediocre to say the least and above all else, components (like the chains/control units) have been the subject of failure too often.
Like anything in life (on average), you get what you pay for.
I've done 4000 miles in 3 years - apart from brake pads, nothing has ever gone wrong with my bike and it looks and feels like new. The battery is still offering over 90% capacity on the diagnostic readout. Range still varies between 85 miles on 'ECO' and 35 miles on 'TURBO'.
They're no different from cars or even washing machines.

My battery replacement costs are >£500. If I saw an Ebike for sale for £400....guess what?

Dont know why, but getting Andy-mat type vibes here, lol.
Welcome to the forum zoros.

 

[LesG]

I'm in a bike club - an ebike club. Apart from the fact that ALL of those with bikes that cost less than £1500 have motors of 60Nm and less (most have 50Nm), the motors are from less well known manufacturers and have less robust warranties.
The level of equipment is mediocre to say the least and above all else, components (like the chains/control units) have been the subject of failure too often.
Like anything in life (on average), you get what you pay for.
I've done 4000 miles in 3 years - apart from brake pads, nothing has ever gone wrong with my bike and it looks and feels like new. The battery is still offering over 90% capacity on the diagnostic readout. Range still varies between 85 miles on 'ECO' and 35 miles on 'TURBO'.
They're no different from cars or even washing machines.

My battery replacement costs are >£500. If I saw an Ebike for sale for £400....guess what?

Zoros, you have made your point and if your intention was to come over unfriendly and unhelpful and boastful to this new member of the forum you have achieved your goal, this ends discussion with you, thank you.

All the other friendly contributors to this thread please can you continue to help this ebike newby please ?

I don't really understand peddle assist, if you peddle at the same time does this help save the battery or even help charge it?
Also as soon as I start peddling in assist mode from stop the bike seems to go reasonable fast straight away, is this normal?

 

[zoros]

saneagle - that "moped" advert.....can't see 100Nm anywhere?
Can you pick it out for me please?
{PS: This advert is for a moped, it is not an Ebike].

85 miles in one day on one charge - pull the other one.

Your 42 miles with the electric switched off - of course it's possible on the flat. But where I live in the hills, absolutely no chance navigating the hills on a 28kg lump of metal for that distance.....

 

[Nealh]

Range, mileage or distance travelled in one day on battery power alone is simply down to how many WH of battery capacity one carries and how much pedalling with no power one wishes to manage.

106 miles is my longest day out ride over 8 hours or so , taking in a leisurely ride 60/40 offroad and road to the south coast . Even then I return home with some 40% battery remaining .
My boardman 700c mx hybrid I use a 36v 522wh downtube battery and in a top rear pannier a 48v 974wh softpack.

 

[saneagle]

Zoros, you have made your point and if your intention was to come over unfriendly and unhelpful and boastful to this new member of the forum you have achieved your goal, this ends discussion with you, thank you.

All the other friendly contributors to this thread please can you continue to help this ebike newby please ?

I don't really understand peddle assist, if you peddle at the same time does this help save the battery or even help charge it?
Also as soon as I start peddling in assist mode from stop the bike seems to go reasonable fast straight away, is this normal?

Here's what you have to think about. Some people can ride a bike all day that doesn't have a motor. Some people have a motor, but they turn the power down to the minimum because they like to pedal hard. Some people turn the power up to the maximum because they don't want to pedal hard. In those three cases, the electrical power consumed will be zero, about 60w and about 250w respectively. The middle one will claim a range of more than four times what the last one gets fromm the same bike.

Your bike uses speed control for the power. That means that it gives maximum power until it reaches a target speed that's different for each level set in the control panel. Electric motors are a bit weird in that the faster they go, the less power they can get, so as you speed up, the power goes down. You always get the maximum torque at zero speed; however, the controller protects the motor by limiting the current at all speeds to stop the motor taking too much current and burning at low speed. What you will feel is high constant torque as you pull away, and when you get to about 12 mph, you'll feel the torque starting to reduce, and the faster you go above that, the less torque you get.

The throttle is also a speed control. The target speed depends on how far you turn it from 0% to 100% maximum speed. Your pedal assist is like the throttle divided up into fixed positions, say 40%, 60%, 80% and 100% max speed.

 

[Az.]

I don't really understand peddle assist, if you peddle at the same time does this help save the battery

Yes.

if you peddle at the same time does this help (...)charge it?

No.

Also as soon as I start peddling in assist mode from stop the bike seems to go reasonable fast straight away, is this normal?

Depends on your settings. Set to low power assist mode if you don't like it.

 

[AndyBike]

The bike was £799 new I believe

So. If you were buying a non Ebike, something costing £149 out of the argos catalog would be good enough ?. Up to the job etc etc.

 

[WheezyRider]

So. If you were buying a non Ebike, something costing £149 out of the argos catalog would be good enough ?. Up to the job etc etc.

I bought a non electric mountain bike (non suspension) from my local bike shop a couple of years ago for £140, a Probike. It was actually £135, but I paid another fiver to have a stand fitted. Has given good service and continues to do so. Last year I fitted a Yose power front wheel kit. £170 for the kit and I used a 15Ah battery I built a while back from cheap Chinese cells (approx £100) that had already done a couple of hundred cycles on another of my bikes. So, all in cost just over £400 for a bike that will do about 50 miles on a charge under "average" conditions - mostly medium assist, a mix of flat and hills.

I have since upgraded the brake callipers to Shimano Alivio. it didn't really need this, the existing ones were perfectly adequate, but the Shimano upgrade was cheap and will future proof the bike.

I do ride it off road at times, but mostly on road. Although it only has about 35Nm torque quoted for the motor, it will get up quite steep dirt tracks no problem at all.

Also, I'm unlikely to get mugged riding it around town, unlike people I know who have been for their £4k bikes.

Let's not forget Les is on a learning curve here. When you first get into e-bikes, your knowledge is next to zero. You have no idea what is good and what isn't, or what even suits you and your situation. Some people love mid drives, others hate them...there's a lot that comes down to personal preference.

I would much rather make my mistakes on a cheap bike that has issues which I can work on and learn something than blow serious money on something unsuitable that I won't learn anything from and I will end up not using.

 

[zoros]

Saneagle - much appreciated - now that makes sense!
Best
Z

 

[Tony1951]

The problem when you're in a club is that you all psych each other up into thinking you need something more than you actually do.

Lets bring back the beastamatic thread. They were happy days. All those forum members. where are they now?

Cyclamatic: The Beastamatic is dead! Long live the Beastamatic

I'm sorry to hear that the Beastamatic is temporarily dead. I'm sure that it'll be alive and well again soon, but in the meantime its spirit will live on in the Beastamatic II. Mine arrived today - much quicker than I expected. Here's what I got. It took me about 20 mins to put it...

www.pedelecs.co.uk

To be honest, if a Cyclamatic was the only available ebike in the world, I'd be happy with it, but I'd change the battery to 36v and solder the shunt up to 18A, and fit a DNP 11/34 freewheel for more comfortable pedalling. That would be a nice bike for about £550, but there are actually better ebikes at the same price on Ebay now. Maybe it's time to do another Beastamatic thread.

Well said. Ive had many hobbies in my life and in EVERY one, I have met bores who dissed my introductory equipment.