Free public battery charging scheme

[morphix]

Hi all,

This poll is to gage support among the forum community for a project which is in the planning stages for establishing a nationwide network of charging point businesses where ebike owners can recharge their batteries free of charge.

We would like to know whether you would find such a scheme useful?

 

[BrianSmithers]

Leaving a £200 (or more) battery laying around for 4 hours or so while I go away somewhere peddling an unpowered e-bike? - hard to see how that will work. The electricity is cheap enough I suppose, but how would it be funded if you included the ability to lock that battery away safely?

- Brian

 

[John Chandler]

For those of us who like to travel long distances... wonderful

 

[hopper_rider]

Leaving a £200 (or more) battery laying around for 4 hours or so while I go away somewhere peddling an unpowered e-bike? - hard to see how that will work. The electricity is cheap enough I suppose, but how would it be funded if you included the ability to lock that battery away safely?

- Brian

Its hard to know how useful it would be without knowing how extensive it might be. Battery security is an obvious issue. If the points were attatched to obvious rest/watering holes it might be more useful in that people could stop to recharge themselves and recharge the bike at the same time.

I watched a youtube vid about a similar idea being used in relation to electric cars in the states.

 

[earwig]

The idea sounds good but, like with cars needs fast chargers, which don't exist. What do you do for 2 or 3 hours while it is charging?

 

[Kinninvie]

Charging points at pubs
Job sorted.

 

[morphix]

The idea sounds good but, like with cars needs fast chargers, which don't exist. What do you do for 2 or 3 hours while it is charging?

'Top-up charging'... never let yourself run completely dry ;-)

For those who have, find your nearest library/cybercafe CP and loose yourself in a book or go online/watch a movie

 

[Fatgadget]

10 odd years down the line ?!
There used to be a charging station by the Canal @ Camden Road overground station. Loong gone.

 

[chris_n]

There is a free public charge point near me, I've only seen it get used once. Many of the Alms (summer farms with food / beer) also provide charge points with Bosch chargers or 240v outlets so you can use your own for other makes. These get a lot of use.

 

[saneagle]

Happy memories. I guess Funky Lynn and Morphix are no longer with us. Lynn got cancer and I think Morphix had health issues too. It was a great effort which I supported financially and in other ways, but I think it was fundamentally flawed. If you're going to carry a charger with you, you might as well carry a spare battery, then you don't need a charger. Also, without standardised and regulated chargers, anything could happen. Then there's the security issues. You'd need to charge for hours to get any worthwhile charge in your battery, during which time somebody might help themselves to a spare charger for their bike or sell it on Ebay.

Actually, a lot of the charging points were in ebike-friendly pubs and restaurants, but can you see them allowing it now with all the battery burning hysteria?

 

[AntonyC]

There's no call for public charging because people aren't aware it could work, but those practical objections are technology based so they could be solved. Free, public, make it fast and safe too and what's not to like? What we need now is a cult sci-fi film in which it just happens.

 

[Michael Price]

Main problem is the speed of charging
If it takes several hours then it is not much use to most people

If it is quick then it goes against the charging advise given by the manufacturers
and would need for those people to agree that it was OK
The manuals all say never to use any charger except the ones they supply - Bosch have the normal one and a faster one - but the faster one still takes hours

But cars do seem to be able to do it with specialised chargers - I think they are designed to charge fast between certain levels of charge
It would need a proper attempt to show that this is allowed and won;t damage the battery
and a good coverage so people get used to the idea that it is possible and OK

 

[jarnold]

Main problem is the speed of charging
If it takes several hours then it is not much use to most people

If it is quick then it goes against the charging advise given by the manufacturers
and would need for those people to agree that it was OK
The manuals all say never to use any charger except the ones they supply - Bosch have the normal one and a faster one - but the faster one still takes hours

But cars do seem to be able to do it with specialised chargers - I think they are designed to charge fast between certain levels of charge
It would need a proper attempt to show that this is allowed and won;t damage the battery
and a good coverage so people get used to the idea that it is possible and OK

Cars have the charger built-in to the vehicle, the so-called charger is just a fancy power supply. Bikes, to my knowledge, do not incorporate the charger,.
Another complication would be that bikes could be 24v, 36v, 48v... Would the public chargers be expected to auto detect the voltage, or would they only work with CAN or something?
Electric cars do have a sort of standard for changing connectors, although the ChaDeMo fast charge points are being phased out in favour of the new standard (certainly in the US, so probably over here as well). Is there any standard for eBikes? I don't know.

 

[Nealh]

The system might be ok for touring bikers but generally the idea is of little use for EAPC's as one can easily get batteries that can do in excess of 50 miles , which for most is more then plenty.
A regular rider who does longer rides will likely take the KISS route and carry a second battery for more range.

 

[AntonyC]

600Wh (50-ish miles) in quality cells doesn't come cheap nor fit easily inside a downtube, so you can see the need could arise.

I'm intrigued how a 'morphix' scheme might get off the ground, attract startup capital, retain a co-ordinator, initiate roll-out, reach the public etc. - is that even feasible as a non-profit project?

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place your charger inside one of the compartments. Connect your bicycle through the gap provided in the door and lock the compartment

 

[saneagle]

600Wh (50-ish miles) in quality cells doesn't come cheap nor fit easily inside a downtube, so you can see the need could arise.

I'm intrigued how a 'morphix' scheme might get off the ground, attract startup capital, retain a co-ordinator, initiate roll-out, reach the public etc. - is that even feasible as a non-profit project?

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place your charger inside one of the compartments. Connect your bicycle through the gap provided in the door and lock the compartment

They did a lot of work on their own. We gave donations so that they could get leaflets printed, which they distributed to various interested businesse along cycle routes or in popular cycling destinations. They had quite good success and encouraged other forum members to do the same with their leaflets, and some of them also had success. That was all before people figured out the safety risks.

Now, it's an absolute non-goer because of the safety and insurance issues, plus the diversity of chargers means that riders have to bring their own, which is a complete waste of effort, when they could bring a spare battery. Finally is the time it would take to charge in a safe and secure place. Although I supported it at the time, I knew that the idea was completely flawed and would never take off.

The only way it would work is everybody had the same charger, the charger was part of the bike, battery chemistry would be 100% safe and there would be a secure place to keep the bike while charging. Anything else would be too inconvenient, too risky or too expensive.

 

[AntonyC]

You're right of course, in the context of today.

Paradigm shift: it's 2030 and everywhere riders park up, plug in the bike and go about their day. The EU faced pushback about cell level recycling so, mindful of their success with USB-C, they standardised charging interfaces. 300Wh - 2 hours riding or 3 x 20 minutes on charge - is now the norm so prices are down, sales have surged and with frequent top-ups the batteries outlast the bikes. The thought of having to lug around a second battery while parked seems nuts, and how were we meant to home charge large batteries anyway, but not overnight nor indoors?

You and Michael Price have nailed the tech demands and the user-facing challenges I think. Hats off to those who supported the 2014 project and made headway jump starting it but community projects seem to have a low success rate. For an 'intractable no-brainer' like this the question becomes "What would it take?"... to persuade insurers, and in organisational terms to get going?

 

[Nealh]

Shift fwd five years and there will no difference, the UK demand or uptake of EPAC's as a regular source of transportation will be no different.

As I said any serious rider who does long distance will carry one or two spare batteries or will use some kind of solar recharging as Matt does.

Today one doesn't need the very best top cells , China Eve, SInowatt and others cells are proving to be good alternatives .

 

[AntonyC]

Shift fwd five years and there will no difference, the UK demand or uptake of EPAC's as a regular source of transportation will be no different.

You could well be right. UK ebike sales are 8% of Germany's per capita (2023). The future's what we make it.

 

[saneagle]

The future's what we make it.

The problem is that the we that you're talking about isn't us.