I'll try and get myself a new meter in the next couple of days, then I'll let you know for sure, but many thanks for the offer. That little circuit board only has three active components -three identical chips labelled 410 WHO, so in theory it should be possible to replace them -it would take a fine soldering iron, but at least the board is only one sided. I wonder what they are and how they detect the motor speed?
Giant lafree twist electrical breakdown
- Thread starter alanterrill
- Start date
I'm sure they're Hall effect sensors Alan. They sense the rotational position of the motor magnets and trigger the timing of the phase current pulses. Whether that 410 WHO will be sufficient to identify suitable replacements is open to question, I'll have a look.
It's usually not worth the bother though, and you're welcome to the new board which at least you'll be sure of. I'm here all of this coming week but will be away from home for some of the following week, so that week might cause a delay in sending it if needed.
P.S. I've drawn a blank on the 410 WHO search as I thought, not recognised at RS Components. Lot's of the stuff Panasonic use in these units isn't available here as I've found in the past. Much of it is "in house" manufacture in that Matsushita group.
If you look at this page on my Torq site, you'll see an animation of the operation. The Hall sensors are numbered H1, H2 and H3 within the motor, but in the Twist case, the sensors are external and two at least must have sequence switching and a delay line to permit correct operation. This sort of complication is typical of this unit's design.
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It's usually not worth the bother though, and you're welcome to the new board which at least you'll be sure of. I'm here all of this coming week but will be away from home for some of the following week, so that week might cause a delay in sending it if needed.
P.S. I've drawn a blank on the 410 WHO search as I thought, not recognised at RS Components. Lot's of the stuff Panasonic use in these units isn't available here as I've found in the past. Much of it is "in house" manufacture in that Matsushita group.
If you look at this page on my Torq site, you'll see an animation of the operation. The Hall sensors are numbered H1, H2 and H3 within the motor, but in the Twist case, the sensors are external and two at least must have sequence switching and a delay line to permit correct operation. This sort of complication is typical of this unit's design.
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Many thanks for getting that sensor to me so quickly flecc. I've just spent the morning reassembling the motor, but I'm afraid to say its made no difference. I've just been out for a test ride and although the red light comes on as before, there's no output from the motor, which I guess means its a faulty main circuit board. I'll try pleading with Giant on Monday.
Alan
Alan
Ok Alan, sorry to hear that. There is still the possibility that it's the pedelec sensor unit at fault, especially as it occurred when you were putting the maximum effort onto that.
There are three leads into there, and the motion sensor is a multi element type with about 40 sensing pins, but there must also be a strain gauge on the spindle for load sensing. It's a sealed unit though.
That can be unplugged and the whole crank spindle assembly removed from the left hand housing complete with it's bearing which is a force fit on the spindle. It wouldn't be worth struggling to get that off, but if you'd like me to mail you the entire spindle assembly with pedelec sensor and bearing to try, you're very welcome. Just say the word.
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There are three leads into there, and the motion sensor is a multi element type with about 40 sensing pins, but there must also be a strain gauge on the spindle for load sensing. It's a sealed unit though.
That can be unplugged and the whole crank spindle assembly removed from the left hand housing complete with it's bearing which is a force fit on the spindle. It wouldn't be worth struggling to get that off, but if you'd like me to mail you the entire spindle assembly with pedelec sensor and bearing to try, you're very welcome. Just say the word.
.
Well, if you would be so kind, its got to be the crank sensor or the main board, so it would be one more thing to eliminate. Rest assured I'll pay your postage costs!
Alan
Alan
Sensor received with thanks. I've fitted it today and reassembled everything, but still no luck -motor as silent as ever. I guess it has to be that big circuit board.
Alan
Alan
I'm still sorry to hear that Alan. It was worth the try, but it seems it's got to be a new unit now if the bike is to go back into service.
Before ordering from Giant UK, it might be worth checking with a US agent for these to see what they are charging for a replacement unit, given the competitive nature of that market. You could try Nycewheels for example.
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Before ordering from Giant UK, it might be worth checking with a US agent for these to see what they are charging for a replacement unit, given the competitive nature of that market. You could try Nycewheels for example.
.
electrical problem lafree
I have aquired a USA Lafree Sport Bicycle from unsold stock at a bicycle distributor--it is not labeled as Sport but is of that vintage (SLA battery). After a few dozen uses I have begun to see a problem where after reinserting battery pack or replacing the batteries inside the pack-- only 2 of the 5 power lights will light up untill I press the diagnostic reset button. Also I have begun to see the occassional cutting out problem described above.
Where might I find user manual and technical descriptions of this bicycle? And what is the most likely point of failure for this problem of underpowering/cutoff with a known good battery?
I should mention that my son has had one jarring impact "crash" on the bicycle. That leads me to believe a contacting problem could be involved, even though when I am seeing the underpower situation I have full power display on the 5 Lights on the motor case. Thank you.
I have aquired a USA Lafree Sport Bicycle from unsold stock at a bicycle distributor--it is not labeled as Sport but is of that vintage (SLA battery). After a few dozen uses I have begun to see a problem where after reinserting battery pack or replacing the batteries inside the pack-- only 2 of the 5 power lights will light up untill I press the diagnostic reset button. Also I have begun to see the occassional cutting out problem described above.
Where might I find user manual and technical descriptions of this bicycle? And what is the most likely point of failure for this problem of underpowering/cutoff with a known good battery?
I should mention that my son has had one jarring impact "crash" on the bicycle. That leads me to believe a contacting problem could be involved, even though when I am seeing the underpower situation I have full power display on the 5 Lights on the motor case. Thank you.
electrical problem lafree
I have aquired a USA Lafree Sport Bicycle from unsold stock at a bicycle distributor--it is not labeled as Sport but is of that vintage (SLA battery). After a few dozen uses I have begun to see a problem where after reinserting battery pack or replacing the batteries inside the pack-- only 2 of the 5 power lights will light up untill I press the diagnostic reset button. Also I have begun to see the occassional cutting out problem described above.
Where might I find user manual and technical descriptions of this bicycle? And what is the most likely point of failure for this problem of underpowering/cutoff with a known good battery?
I should mention that my son has had one jarring impact "crash" on the bicycle. That leads me to believe a contacting problem could be involved, even though when I am seeing the underpower situation I have full power display on the 5 Lights on the motor case. Thank you.
I have aquired a USA Lafree Sport Bicycle from unsold stock at a bicycle distributor--it is not labeled as Sport but is of that vintage (SLA battery). After a few dozen uses I have begun to see a problem where after reinserting battery pack or replacing the batteries inside the pack-- only 2 of the 5 power lights will light up untill I press the diagnostic reset button. Also I have begun to see the occassional cutting out problem described above.
Where might I find user manual and technical descriptions of this bicycle? And what is the most likely point of failure for this problem of underpowering/cutoff with a known good battery?
I should mention that my son has had one jarring impact "crash" on the bicycle. That leads me to believe a contacting problem could be involved, even though when I am seeing the underpower situation I have full power display on the 5 Lights on the motor case. Thank you.
LaFree Sport manual
Giant UK did have a (fairly comprehensive) pdf manual on their website for this model up until recently when they did the big website revamp. I'm sure if you can't find it elsewhere through Googling (or someone else emailing you a copy), a quick email to Giant will get the pdf for you.
As for whats causing the problem, if you've just got it from a dealer, they should look after you and fix it. I'd first look at the main battery connection points for signs of burn spots but not being familiar with the old LaFree Sport I cant advise from personal knowledge where these are.
Giant UK did have a (fairly comprehensive) pdf manual on their website for this model up until recently when they did the big website revamp. I'm sure if you can't find it elsewhere through Googling (or someone else emailing you a copy), a quick email to Giant will get the pdf for you.
As for whats causing the problem, if you've just got it from a dealer, they should look after you and fix it. I'd first look at the main battery connection points for signs of burn spots but not being familiar with the old LaFree Sport I cant advise from personal knowledge where these are.
re: Lafree sport
Unfortunately, this shop no longer sells or supports electric bicycles. Luckily the problem is an occassional one for now.
As for the documentation, I will continue to google for a link but if anyone comes across this information I would welcome it. Thank you for the prompt reply.
Unfortunately, this shop no longer sells or supports electric bicycles. Luckily the problem is an occassional one for now.
As for the documentation, I will continue to google for a link but if anyone comes across this information I would welcome it. Thank you for the prompt reply.
Email address for manual
It's unfortunate the dealer is no longer selling electric bikes. Did they make it clear when you bought yours that they'd not be offering any support? Just because it's old stock doesn't mean there's no warranty (unless they advised you of this before you decided to buy). Even then here in the UK there are consumer laws which offer protection - not sure about where you live.
Here's an email address you can ask them through: aftersales@giant-bicycles.co.uk as long as your email acct can receive pdf attachments of a few MB in size, you should be OK.
It's unfortunate the dealer is no longer selling electric bikes. Did they make it clear when you bought yours that they'd not be offering any support? Just because it's old stock doesn't mean there's no warranty (unless they advised you of this before you decided to buy). Even then here in the UK there are consumer laws which offer protection - not sure about where you live.
Here's an email address you can ask them through: aftersales@giant-bicycles.co.uk as long as your email acct can receive pdf attachments of a few MB in size, you should be OK.
More Lafree "sport" model questions
First, thank you for the link on user manual, it took a week or so but I did get the documentation I wanted from giant.uk.
Second, for now simply backpedaling occassionally seems to reset the VPC of the bicycle and it performs well. I do think the overheating circuit was involved the one time I had the most severe problem. I have installed (for what its worth) a remote temperature sensor to my motor just to to monitor temps as I drive. If I find a correlation in the future I will know I suppose.
Third, I have acquired another used Lafree early sport model and I find that when I turn the key on, the motor spins continuously and the alarm sounds continuously as it spins. It does not shut off in the absence of sensors brakes, wheel position. It may be that a previous owner attempted modifications or it could just be faulty. Doesn't respond to S/T button in any way. Does anyone know of error mode where the motor is always on and alarm is sounding?
Thank you
First, thank you for the link on user manual, it took a week or so but I did get the documentation I wanted from giant.uk.
Second, for now simply backpedaling occassionally seems to reset the VPC of the bicycle and it performs well. I do think the overheating circuit was involved the one time I had the most severe problem. I have installed (for what its worth) a remote temperature sensor to my motor just to to monitor temps as I drive. If I find a correlation in the future I will know I suppose.
Third, I have acquired another used Lafree early sport model and I find that when I turn the key on, the motor spins continuously and the alarm sounds continuously as it spins. It does not shut off in the absence of sensors brakes, wheel position. It may be that a previous owner attempted modifications or it could just be faulty. Doesn't respond to S/T button in any way. Does anyone know of error mode where the motor is always on and alarm is sounding?
Thank you
La Sport (Step-through) elec. problem
It would seem that I am suffering a similiar problem. When I turn my bike on, I get one long beep, the wheel spins for a few seconds, and the five led's flash on an off until I turn the bike off. I have tried two batteries as I own two bikes and both batteries work in my second bike (wife's) but neither works in mine.
Since the diagnostic test indicates all is fine, I would assume that the problem is in the logic (?) module. Has anyone had any luck in getting replacements -- I am aware that the bike was built in 2001. Or has anyone tried any of the various controller modules available from othe manufacturers.
I am at a real loss here and would like as much help as anyone can render.
Jim
It would seem that I am suffering a similiar problem. When I turn my bike on, I get one long beep, the wheel spins for a few seconds, and the five led's flash on an off until I turn the bike off. I have tried two batteries as I own two bikes and both batteries work in my second bike (wife's) but neither works in mine.
Since the diagnostic test indicates all is fine, I would assume that the problem is in the logic (?) module. Has anyone had any luck in getting replacements -- I am aware that the bike was built in 2001. Or has anyone tried any of the various controller modules available from othe manufacturers.
I am at a real loss here and would like as much help as anyone can render.
Jim
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