Greasing up the TSDZ2B

harrys

Esteemed Pedelecer
Dec 1, 2016
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Chicago, USA
Almost 4000 miles, and the motor gear has never been greased on my wife's bike. She uses throttle in 7th gear to help start. On uphill starts, I hear metal popping. Time to inspect the white gear,

1. This is the vertical bracket for holding the motor to the frame, Many people don't use it because it fits poorly and does little, Mine was like that, and , I had cut a deep notch in the bracket to allow a snug fit. The round fastener was just a few foot pounds past finger tight when I looked today. Only this bracket was holding it snug, Who knows. Maybe the motor was flexing in the frame, but I couldn't get it to move by hand.

By the way, you can see one of the hex head 3mm(?) screws for the cover. If I had had any better ones handy, I would have replaced them. With those round heads, the hex sockets strip easy, However, they only hold the cover and only need light torque.
W9050289.JPG

2. The rest is pretty standard. You want to have a JIS Japanese phillips screwdriver for the four motor mounting screws. They're torqued in tight, and anything else will likely round off the heads.

3Here's the motor drive screw. Looks dry, but there is likely a thin layer of lube, I thought I saw slight shiny spots where it would contact the top and bottom of the nylon gear,
W9050281.JPG

3. I was unable to remove the white gear, There might be a circlips on the other end. However, I didn't see any wear, or much grease.

W9050278.JPG

4. Watch out for spacer washers on the white gear shaft, Easy to miss, and not replace on assembly,
W9050279.JPG
5. Liberally applied Mobil red lube, I wondered how it will mix with the traces of old white grease left, I also put some 30Wt oil into the bearings I saw.

W9050283.JPG

W9050284.JPG

Put it all back together, Only lost one washer for one of the motor wire screws. I have tiny washers in my parts box, but none that small. I took one off the clip that holds the motor cables.

6. OK. Done.A few thoughts, The case cover has an o-ring for water sealing, The inside of this motor was clean and dry. We had ridden thru 6" of water earlier this year, and no apparent water entry, I was struck by the small size of the motor. Only 66 mm in diameter.

W9050287.JPGW9050288.JPGW9050286.JPG
 
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Sturmey

Esteemed Pedelecer
Jan 26, 2018
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I have similar about 7200Km up on a 36v (2020) tsdz2 which I have never opened and it still goes. The motor has been trouble free so far. I think I will just open it if it breaks. As far as I know, plastic gears running against metal need very little lube. Some even claim they are self lubrication.
An old mechanic told me once, he seen shredded nylon stockings once stuffed into a cars worn gearbox to make it quite, so nylon/plastic must have some lube value.
 
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Woosh

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May 19, 2012
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wooshbikes.co.uk
As far as I know, plastic gears running against metal need very little lube. Some even claim they are self lubrication.
Pretty much it.

From ChatGPT:


1. Interaction During Wear

Grease as a carrier: When plastic surfaces are lubricated with grease, any polymer wear particles (microplastics) can get trapped and suspended in the grease matrix.

Grease modification: The plastic debris can thicken or stiffen the grease, sometimes forming a paste-like material.

Self-lubrication effect: In some cases, polymer debris can act like solid lubricants (a bit like PTFE powder) and reduce friction further.



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2. Chemical & Physical Processes

Adsorption: Plastic fragments can absorb oil components from the grease, slightly swelling or softening.

Mechanical entrapment: The soap-thickener network in grease can physically lock onto microplastic debris.

Oxidation synergy: Heat and oxygen accelerate the degradation of both grease oils and plastic polymers → producing sticky deposits or varnish-like films.



---

3. Performance Implications

Positive:

Small, smooth polymer wear debris can polish the counterface and stabilize friction.

Certain plastics (like UHMWPE, PTFE) intentionally form transfer films that are beneficial.


Negative:

Excessive debris can clog the grease → loss of flow, higher torque.

Accumulated debris can turn grease into an abrasive slurry if mixed with dust/contaminants.

Degraded grease + polymer fragments can form varnish or crusts on contact surfaces.




---

4. Long-Term Fate

Over time, the base oil in grease migrates or evaporates, leaving behind:

Soap thickener

Additives (e.g., anti-oxidants, anti-wear metals)

Embedded plastic wear debris


The final residue is often a hard, dark deposit (varnish) containing both degraded hydrocarbons and polymer fragments.

[
 

harrys

Esteemed Pedelecer
Dec 1, 2016
415
112
74
Chicago, USA
That info might make me happy about my hubmotors. The AKM's are especially hard to unscrew. I am reluctant to grease them, but unlike hubmotors midmotors, water gets inside hubs. DIrt probably does too. However, we're riding the mid motors round and round these days.

I am using Mobil SHC 100, a synthetic grease claimed by the manufacturer to be safe for nylon. This time, I will believe what Big Oil claims.
 
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saneagle

Esteemed Pedelecer
Oct 10, 2010
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Telford
That info might make me happy about my hubmotors. The AKM's are especially hard to unscrew. I am reluctant to grease them, but unlike hubmotors, water gets in. DIrt probably does too. However, we're riding the mid motors round and round these days.

I am using Mobil SHC 100, a synthetic grease claimed by the manufacturer to be safe for nylon. This time, I will believe what Big Oil claims.
AKM motors usually open easily if you heat up the hub to the temperature where it's just becoming too hot to touch.
 
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harrys

Esteemed Pedelecer
Dec 1, 2016
415
112
74
Chicago, USA
AKM motors usually open easily if you heat up the hub to the temperature where it's just becoming too hot to touch.
Yikes. I do have a mounted AKM128 with a dead speedsensor. I am going to clamp the motor in a vise and try turning the 26" wheel. Works for stuck freewheels,