Greenway Cross City

anotherkiwi

Esteemed Pedelecer
Jan 26, 2015
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I don't think your battery issue has anything to do with your bike in particular because others and myself have experienced similar behaviour from the GSM motor and smaller batteries.

I got around the problem by gearing down. I also don't have that issue with a 20 Ah LiPo battery. Both combined mean that I no longer have exaggerated battery sag.
 
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redcup1999

Pedelecer
Sep 4, 2016
213
126
Bristol
I don't think your battery issue has anything to do with your bike in particular because others and myself have experienced similar behaviour from the GSM motor and smaller batteries.
Agreed. I'm simply asking too much of the battery supplied with the bike combined with my weight and a hill that peaks at 15%.

It's 10.4Ah - presumably capable of supplying 10 Amps continuous.
If the controller is set to draw 14 amps on Level 5 for 9 minutes plus, it's not going to like it! A 17Ah pack should resolve the issue.

Next time I'll try spinning in a lower gear up that hill - (although it already "felt" like I was spinning pretty fast).

As an aside, I put a new controller in the Tornado - it is faster overall set at 11Amps than set at 18Amps - same issue I assume.
 

RobF

Esteemed Pedelecer
Sep 22, 2012
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That much sag after only 11 miles looks odd to me.

My only lengthy experience is with Bosch batteries, which hardly sag at all even when close to empty.

I suppose I should say 'Bosch system' as it may be the controller/software on Bosch bikes which all but eliminates sag.

Whatever, a Bosch bike would whirr up a 15-16% gradient with no sag, and with no temporary reduction of the battery level display.
 

anotherkiwi

Esteemed Pedelecer
Jan 26, 2015
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Agreed. I'm simply asking too much of the battery supplied with the bike combined with my weight and a hill that peaks at 15%.

It's 10.4Ah - presumably capable of supplying 10 Amps continuous.
If the controller is set to draw 14 amps on Level 5 for 9 minutes plus, it's not going to like it! A 17Ah pack should resolve the issue.

Next time I'll try spinning in a lower gear up that hill - (although it already "felt" like I was spinning pretty fast).

As an aside, I put a new controller in the Tornado - it is faster overall set at 11Amps than set at 18Amps - same issue I assume.
When I ride with my 10.4 Ah Li-ion I don't use assistance level 5 any more, the battery isn't up to providing 15 Amps.

That much sag after only 11 miles looks odd to me.

My only lengthy experience is with Bosch batteries, which hardly sag at all even when close to empty.

I suppose I should say 'Bosch system' as it may be the controller/software on Bosch bikes which all but eliminates sag.

Whatever, a Bosch bike would whirr up a 15-16% gradient with no sag, and with no temporary reduction of the battery level display.
I think the BMS/controller may be a little more advanced than a Chinese one, I hope so for all that money!
 
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Woosh

Trade Member
May 19, 2012
16,400
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Southend on Sea
wooshbikes.co.uk
I think the BMS/controller may be a little more advanced than a Chinese one
I reckon not, they just require the rider to put his back into pedaling harder.

The internal resistance for those batteries are inherent characteristics of the cells. If you have a Chinese pack made with the same cells arranged in the same way (10S4P for 400WH), same sag at same amps.

Does anyone know which cells are inside the GW's battery?
 
Last edited:

anotherkiwi

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Jan 26, 2015
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They say Samsung but are not specific, I'll go out on a limb and say 26F because they sag badly from my experience.
 
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redcup1999

Pedelecer
Sep 4, 2016
213
126
Bristol
I reckon not, they just require the rider to put his back into pedaling harder.

The internal resistance for those batteries are inherent characteristics of the cells. If you have a Chinese pack made with the same cells arranged in the same way (10S4P for 400WH), same sag at same amps.

Does anyone know which cells are inside the GW's battery?
The ebay advert says:
"SAMSUNG CELL Li-ION, DC36V 10.4AH".

The solution is definitely a bigger battery pack if I need to carry on riding in the style I do on the routes with long hills.

Or turn the assist level right down (to 3?) and see how I go - I think I will try that next Sunday.

There is a shorter steep hill which peaks at 17% on the same ride. The segment is only 0.2 miles long. I didn't get the same degree of sag there (and I *think* I was using a lower assist level).
Greenway: 2mins10
Crossfire: 2mins
Kudos: 2mins5


I may try and get a pack with Samsung 30Q cells and see how i go - just need to decide whether to stick with 36V or go to 48V.
 
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anotherkiwi

Esteemed Pedelecer
Jan 26, 2015
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Or, if you can get a second battery from them and connect in parallel for 36V 20.8 Ah.
 

RobF

Esteemed Pedelecer
Sep 22, 2012
4,732
2,310
I reckon not, they just require the rider to put his back into pedalling harder.
There may be a small element of that, but I think the torque sensor effect is over estimated.

The latest Performance/CX Bosch motors don't require a lot of effort on a 15% asphalt hill in sport or turbo.

It's all subjective, of course, but in turbo I reckon I'm not doing a great deal more than keeping the cranks spinning, as I would be on a speed sensor only bike.
 

Recy

Pedelecer
Dec 10, 2016
103
17
manchester
What style is the battery case, specifically. If one was to get new a battery it would be very useful to to have one that can be swapped around simply between bikes.
 

redcup1999

Pedelecer
Sep 4, 2016
213
126
Bristol
The battery case is a Phylion SF-06.
Simple two terminal battery (no communication between BMS and controller).
And my Crossfire-e uses the same battery case, but is not directly physically compatible as all 6 terminals are connected with the Crossfire. Also the physical lock is slightly different - on the Crossfire you only need the key to remove the battery. On the Greenway you need the key to remove and refit the battery - I guess different model year of casing?

MOQ is 100 from the only supplier I have found in China!
From Europe, you are looking at more like 350+ Euro.

I think it would be more cost effective to switch to a different more common battery type.
 

Recy

Pedelecer
Dec 10, 2016
103
17
manchester
Certainly. This raise a problem if one were to move over to a 48v system - one would be left with a 36v battery that no longer fits the Greenway but equally is of an unusual case/fitting type that cannot easily be re-sold.
Solutions?
 

Woosh

Trade Member
May 19, 2012
16,400
14,108
Southend on Sea
wooshbikes.co.uk
how about putting the 10AH battery on ebay?
 

Recy

Pedelecer
Dec 10, 2016
103
17
manchester
Of course but not sure how popular it would be, might only fit on this bike if it is as unusual as Redcup finds. How many would want it - its very current and they already have one presumably.
Would be nice to swap around with a higher capacity battery but looks unlikely right now. No biggy.
 

redcup1999

Pedelecer
Sep 4, 2016
213
126
Bristol
I'm still having problems with the front brake.

It turns out that my orginal post about delivery saying:
"outer part of wheel / brake disc mashed"
was significant.

The brake disc is not straight - it's slightly bent - hence why I can't set it up right - I only found this when I turned the bike upside down and span the wheel.

I have contacted Greenway by ebay to ask for a replacement front disc - let's see how their customer service is! (If not, I know I can get a new disc for just over a tenner, but hopefully I won't have to).
 

RobF

Esteemed Pedelecer
Sep 22, 2012
4,732
2,310
You may be able to straighten it with palm pressure.
 

Ultrafunkula

Pedelecer
Mar 18, 2011
168
114
I'm still having problems with the front brake.

It turns out that my orginal post about delivery saying:
"outer part of wheel / brake disc mashed"
was significant.

The brake disc is not straight - it's slightly bent - hence why I can't set it up right - I only found this when I turned the bike upside down and span the wheel.

I have contacted Greenway by ebay to ask for a replacement front disc - let's see how their customer service is! (If not, I know I can get a new disc for just over a tenner, but hopefully I won't have to).
I hate warped discs, even slight is a reet pain in the backside,hope they sort a disc for you, I checked evibay yesterday , they are almost out of stock of the bike, others have it up for grabs though at a dearer price, Greenway are selling wheelsets etc., so should have a disc or 2 knocking about .

I've noticed sag on the battery, but comes back up rapidly when climb is finished, hopefully this will disappear with a few runs/charges, not had that on either of my previous ebikes , could it be an over sensitive parameter in the settings?
Or do I sell this battery and just slam this in place instead but it's not cheap
http://pages.ebay.com/link/?nav=item.view&alt=web&id=272544058843&globalID=EBAY-GB
 

redcup1999

Pedelecer
Sep 4, 2016
213
126
Bristol
Good service from Greenway so far - reply received with apologies and telling me a new disc is on its way.

As for the battery - I'm not sure what the benefit is of 48V on a mid-drive bike - the pedals already spin fast enough (genuine question).

Yes, the display is certainly over sensitive with regards to dropping at the first sign of a fall in voltage - I need a few more rides (in lower gears up hills) to see if it performs as I hoped.

I'm considering one of these if that battery doesn't improve after a few cycles:
http://eclipsebikes.com/15ah-lithium-frame-battery-samsung-cells-p-1124.html
 

Woosh

Trade Member
May 19, 2012
16,400
14,108
Southend on Sea
wooshbikes.co.uk
your motor is stamped 350W, it will pull more current than the 250W version.
I think you will need a better battery on the long term.
 

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