Maybe an opening for Shimano to market a front electric brake without regen as an alternative to their roller brake?
That said, news is that their new roller brake just arriving is much more effective than the old rather slow acting and weak one.
.
Has ANYONE bought a BionX kit?
- Thread starter vectra
- Start date
That said, news is that their new roller brake just arriving is much more effective than the old rather slow acting and weak one.
.
On the same circuit on mixed terain with quite a few traffic lights, the regen gets me another 4k I'd estimate on a 44km trip.
C
Cyclezee
Guest
That reminds me, the other day I saw one one of these in Cycle King
hn
Could it be a Ferrari for Frank? It also has
- SHIMANO CYBER NEXUS ROLLER BRAKES
[*]SHIMANO CYBER NEXUS FORK WITH AUTO CONTROL
[*]8 SPEED SHIMANO NEXUS AUTOMATIC GEARS
hnGeez. Ferrari are branding anything these days.That reminds me, the other day I saw one one of these in Cycle King
Could it be a Ferrari for Frank? It also hasJ
[*]SHIMANO CYBER NEXUS FORK WITH AUTO CONTROL
[*]8 SPEED SHIMANO NEXUS AUTOMATIC GEARS
I wonder what that silver bit is on the downtube? Did you investigate John?That reminds me, the other day I saw one one of these in Cycle King
Could it be a Ferrari for Frank? It also hasJ
- SHIMANO CYBER NEXUS FORK WITH AUTO CONTROL
- 8 SPEED SHIMANO NEXUS AUTOMATIC GEARS
It's odd for that discounter to have such a name as Ferrari in it's store.
By the way, did you see this reply John?
.
I was going to post earlier but this thread has moved on a fair bit! I'm with Harry on this I don't buy the reasoning for the pricing strategy, the reason for using expensive cells is the regen function, but as we know regen on any bike is dubious no matter how you cut it. If you paid the cash and didn't find the function of any benefit then you have paid through the nose for just having the option of using regen. As I said before I'm sure the quality is first class but I would not pay for it. The cost and positioning seems delibrate but seemingly only to justify the function or functions that only a few will think of benefit.
C
Cyclezee
Guest
I only saw it through the window whilst looking for something else, but did have double take when I saw the name Ferrari in what is not an up market bike shop.
For a second I thought it was a dinky battery, but I think it something to do with the automatic gears? Do you think it might be CVT?
They are having a clearance sale Cycle King
I am checking out your link Tony.
J
hnHi
Good reasoning I believe and an explanation for the positioning of the BionX product in the market. Each time I have spoken with an agent about the BionX kit the "advantages" of regeneration are quickly pointed out. It's clearly part of the marketing strategy.
I've also noticed that if I enquire about a particular e bike the agent, if he sells the BionX kit will also describe the kit. Once I mention that price is a barrier then I find the agent will quickly drop the subject. I have the feeling that they, like me, are not too convinced by the price structure.
Getting back to ready built with BionX does anyone know as to whether the Kalkhoff B27 and Trek T500 or T80 use the BionX battery?
Does the technology allow for an alternative battery?
I note that regeneration can be turned on/off and presumably can be disabled? If so, then would this allow for the fitting of an alternative, and hopefully cheaper battery?
So. it appears that the Trek and Kalkhoff with BionX power may be back in the frame however like you I 'm really not interested in regeneration.
Regards
vectra. (learning all the time from you guys).
That's it John, of course, it's the automatic gearchange version. Those I've seen previously have had that gear control box on a stem of the rear frame.For a second I thought it was a dinky battery, but I think it something to do with the automatic gears? Do you think it might be CVT?
J
The front hubdyno is an essential part of that setup of course.
.
I think it could work with an alternative battery, in theory, if you limited the regen (as you could on the panel) - presumably 25% would be safe. Not sure it could be locked down though and so open to the possibility of frying a £500 battery. Anyway the beauty of the Bionx is it is such a nice kit - the battery positioning being very important in that. Replacing the battery with an Ezee would turn it back into a kit for tinkerers and so not for me. Not sure you could even add a battery because of the canbus system they use. I don't think you could replace the cells very easily - I think the latest batteries have some sort of memory function within the bms to provide some more info for example to tell how many cycles the cells have done.
Last edited:
A high price strategy for supposed benefits is nothing new of course, Mercedes and BMW have been doing it for years. It's accepted in marketing that image carries a premium. Alluding to your online name, Vauxhall's current Insignia is priced from about £18,000 to £32,000, but you can bet there's not anything like £14.000 worth of extra content in that top model.
The BionX batteries are fitted to all the bikes using their motor, since the quality is needed to handle the regen peaks. To get the battery price down for those manufacturer models they are fitting smaller batteries though, not usually the very expensive standard 10 Ah in-frame one.
Regen has to switched on into one of four settings, so using it is always a user choice. There is an alternative battery for those who do not want to use regen, or use strictly only the lower two regen settings, and I posted it earlier in the thread on this link.
.
As I say in post above I don't know how you could integrate a different battery into the Bionx system. A bit like printers and printer cartridges, where they have a chip in them so you have to buy their products.
Found some explanation of the canbus system here:
BionX I2C upgraded to CanBus, explanation
Last edited:
The best thing about regen to my mind, having done a few thousand miles on a Bionx bike, is the improvement to stopping distances which, on one occasion, I think saved me from T-boning a car that nipped out and then stopped in front of me. It also helps in icy conditions.
Cheers
Nick
Cheers
Nick
Thanks Harry, seems to rule out alternatives at the moment for the post 2008/9 machines then.
With a number of bike makers adopting BionX now, especially in Germany like Derby-Kalkhoff and Riese & Muller, there may be alternative lower priced replacement batteries appearing. It's happened from Germany for the Panasonic system with the new BMZ made batteries for example, so possible.
.
Does the regenerative braking force fall away with speed? I'm thinking that it would be quite effective at scrubbing off higher speeds, but less so as speed falls below 10 mph ish.
Nonetheless, this is an interesting thread and quite enlightening with regard to the BionX system. That battery price is breathtakingly expensive. But as some contributors have already mentioned, as price increases, the number of people interested in the system falls away.
My sister-in-law who lives in St Johns, Newfoundland bought a Trek bike fitted with a 350 Watt motor last summer. It's a Bionx PL350 system with a 37 volt 10Ah battery. She paid just under $2000 Ca (£1350) for the whole lot, bike and system ready built. I don't think that it has regenerative braking though, so that may make it a bit cheaper. She seems delighted with it though and it's very hilly around St Johns.
Nonetheless, this is an interesting thread and quite enlightening with regard to the BionX system. That battery price is breathtakingly expensive. But as some contributors have already mentioned, as price increases, the number of people interested in the system falls away.
My sister-in-law who lives in St Johns, Newfoundland bought a Trek bike fitted with a 350 Watt motor last summer. It's a Bionx PL350 system with a 37 volt 10Ah battery. She paid just under $2000 Ca (£1350) for the whole lot, bike and system ready built. I don't think that it has regenerative braking though, so that may make it a bit cheaper. She seems delighted with it though and it's very hilly around St Johns.
I'd say the regen helps with braking all the way to a stop - it will bring me to a stop on any long steep hills around here without touching the brakes themselves - not very effectively on its own, mind you.
If I'm out on a particularly long or battery sapping ride I'll use regen down hills as I've never noticed more than the smallest of benefits from going as fast as possible downhill to minimise the effort up the other side. I doubt it adds more than a hundred yards or so to the distance I can do on a ride, but I have no idea - maybe it's more, maybe it's less. I did once post a link to a guy in a mountainous area who used it to good effect to increase the distances he could cycle, but he was using a velo I think.
If I'm out on a particularly long or battery sapping ride I'll use regen down hills as I've never noticed more than the smallest of benefits from going as fast as possible downhill to minimise the effort up the other side. I doubt it adds more than a hundred yards or so to the distance I can do on a ride, but I have no idea - maybe it's more, maybe it's less. I did once post a link to a guy in a mountainous area who used it to good effect to increase the distances he could cycle, but he was using a velo I think.
C
Cyclezee
Guest
I used to live and work in Cornwall Ave, St Johns, I can certainly vouch for the hills and the snow, a Bionx would be great in the summer when it is a beautiful place. Went to work one morning and by midday my car was buried in the car park, had to borrow my bosses GMC Jimmy to collect my kids from school. We don't know what snow is here.
If you get goods shipped from Alberta to Newfie for example, you don't have to pay any GST.
J
hnThank you. The Wiki explanation is very useful.
HOWEVER. Has anyone else noticed the price of the kit at NYCewheels. £748.00 for the PL 250. The PL 250 is actually shown at a lower price than the PL 250 Light which is priced at £934.00. (I'm assuming $1.60 to £1.00).
I've already spoken with NYCewheels and unfortunately they don't ship to the U.K. and understandably as there are warranty/suppport implications for both buyer and seller. At those prices in UK terms I would be very interested in the PL 250.
So, unless NYCewheels are selling at a loss or break even or are being subsidised by the supplier there is room for a price drop it seems? It could be, of course, that the distributor and manufacturer have realised that the previous U.S.A prices were just not enabling a market?
Regards
vectra
Regards
vectra
Related Articles
-
MTF Enterprises announces acquisition of EMU Electric Bikes- Started by: Pedelecs
-
Wisper 806T folding bike wins Which? ‘Best Buy’- Started by: Pedelecs
-
Sustrans calls for protected cycle lanes- Started by: Pedelecs
-
Amazon launch their first UK e-cargo micromobility hub- Started by: Pedelecs
