Hase Ketwiessel Recumbent Trike - TSDZ2 install - part completed

glerwill

Finding my (electric) wheels
Oct 19, 2013
22
3
I bought a Hase Kettwiesel second-hand which is an aluminium version 2009 or later. There is a user manual pdf on the Hase website. I wanted to convert to electric because of my age and medical conditions. I initially thought about a front hub motor because – the weight would be useful at the front (Kettwiesel is a recumbent trike driven on right wheel only), and it looked simpler to do. I am grateful for comments on this forum that brought me to choose the TSDZ2 Mid Drive and a picture from Wooshbikes showing a Bafang motor on a Kettwiesel (showing a steering rod modification). Two articles helped me choose the TSDZ2 over the BBS02 - tsdz2-vs-bbs02 and empoweredpeople/experimenting-with-tsdz2-mid-drive . I got hugely diverted by all the possibilities of programming the TSDZ2, but eventually decided not to do it. Sourcing the TSDZ2 - Wooshbikes or your own research – my intention was an amateur install.

Install (steering) – the photo of the BBS01 on a Kettwiesel showed the need to relocate the steering rod above the bottom bracket – first attempt was to lengthen the bolt through the universal joint and use spacers to raise the height by about 90mm – result fail – I got the clearance but there was too much flex and the front bracket on the headstock would eventually fail. Second successful method – purchase aluminium tube 16mm x 1.5mm x 2m (ebay metalshop) and bend it with a Silverline tube bender (we bought 3 lengths of tube and had several practice attempts). Method – measure clearance needed above bottom bracket and front/rear clearance needed. Make the bends nearer to 45 degrees than 90, cut off both ends to a finished length to match original – this results in the first bend being as close as possible to the headstock end. We made a threaded aluminium insert as an interference fit to the tube and hammered it home.

Uninstall (bottom bracket and cranks) – we had read about needing a crank puller, and then made every numpty mistake using it that a first-time user does. The threaded end of the crank puller had a removable end cap which was bigger than the size of the square taper bit being pushed out and we stripped the thread on the crank. Once we got the cranks off, we found that the ring spanner for the bottom bracket in the TSDZ2 kit had 8 lugs and the Kettwiesel had 6 – suitable spanner not available at Halfords or local bike shop so used a made-up solution with a plate and 3 small bolts. Result – everything removed, but old bottom bracket and crank would have to be replaced if reassembled.

Install (TSDZ2 motor) – the manual states that a bottom bracket size range of 68-72mm is needed to install the motor – the Kettwiesel is slightly different to this and it was necessary to make the 2 x thick aluminium washers on the motor, 3mm thicker for the install to fit. There is a stabiliser bracket on the motor designed for an ordinary bike – we intend to use a strap going over the 48mm trike frame tube, a longer bolt and a round spacer on the bolt (not yet done).

Install (Hailong Battery MK1) – intention is to use square aluminium tube with plastic stop ends, jubilee clipped to the trike frame tube just behind the headstock – it is fair to say this is a compromise solution as battery on off button position is not ideal.

Install (Peripherals) – space is at a premium on the trike and some positions are compromises. The two handlebars on the under-seat steering come off to fit the replacement brake levers, with the electronic switches that cut off the motor when you apply the brake (some people online complain about the quality, but they seemed fine to me). We fitted the thumb throttle below the handgrip on the right handlebar, with the brake lever below it. We decided not to fit the optional remote control (you can do everything off the display). We fitted the display on the left handlebar, under left thigh – not ideal to read or adjust.

So far, all done in a single (long) day, with copious assistance from my brother (who has a lathe and other tools). Problems/not done yet – cable lengths from right brake lever to display are too short and will need extending, cable from speed sensor on front wheel is too short and will need extending (this will be a problem with connectors/internal wiring), cable management/ties generally, fitting the battery, making a motor stabiliser strap and spacer block, tightening everything up, adjusting brakes, steering, gears. We have done an electrical check, but not an overall usability check. Pictures will be provided showing final installation.
 

peter.c

Esteemed Pedelecer
Apr 24, 2018
1,154
316
thurrock essex
The best way I find to extend the speed sensor/ brake cable is to cut it in the middle, add an extra length of cable ,solder and shrink wrap the cable. it is not worth trying to find the plugs, and the ready made extension cables are never the right length
 

vfr400

Esteemed Pedelecer
Jun 12, 2011
6,026
2,205
Basildon
Cable length should be no problem at all. Cut the connectors off because you don't need them and they only cause problems anyway, then add in or remove cable to get the correct length. Solder and heatshrink each joint. It's one or two joints per conductor depending whether you're lengthening or shortening. Use a strong magnet with a crocodile clip to hold the wire while you solder it.
 

Bad Machine

Pedelecer
Sep 1, 2019
35
7
:cool: Great to read of your progress so far, and if you can share some photos at some point, even better. I am particularly interested in your solution to the Tongsheng unit getting in the way of the Kett's steerer - is your new "45 degree bends" aluminium tube making a detour above or below the crank drive ? Having just fitted a TSDZ2 to a standard upright bike, I'm considering doing the same for a Hase Lepus (steel frame, 1 x 9 x 3 geared), with a similar delta design to the Kett. The Lepus has a good amount of space on the rear subframe, so that's where I'd plan to fix the battery, and I'm happy to splice cables once I know where I'm going to place the various controls and display. Do post more once you've finished !
 

anotherkiwi

Esteemed Pedelecer
Jan 26, 2015
7,845
5,780
The European Union
Cable length should be no problem at all. Cut the connectors off because you don't need them and they only cause problems anyway, then add in or remove cable to get the correct length. Solder and heatshrink each joint. It's one or two joints per conductor depending whether you're lengthening or shortening. Use a strong magnet with a crocodile clip to hold the wire while you solder it.
Why would you need a switch on a battery? Ah because you don't have any plugs, you've soldered everything together! :p

IMVHO if there is a vehicle which needs plugs it is a trike. They make it easier to work on. But what would I know, I'm only going by personal experience...
 

vfr400

Esteemed Pedelecer
Jun 12, 2011
6,026
2,205
Basildon
I would want a switch on my battery to switch it on and off! What's that got to do with connectors?
 

glerwill

Finding my (electric) wheels
Oct 19, 2013
22
3
So - sorry for not posting a follow up for a while

Problems experienced

  • Originally I had the remote control, the brake sensors and the throttle connected - result error E04 - solution disconnect these things as I found I did not need them (also cable length a problem). Remade a shorter holder for the LCD display. I had also tried the LCD display on handlebars - could not see/control it.
  • I connected up everything again and and it went for a while but then the 3d printed plastic 'stabilising strap' broke - solution - make it in aluminium (twice) - there is still a 3 d printed plastic spacer in there - it works ok.
  • Goes to go to work - clicking noice (electrical variety) and bike wont go. Alternative transport to work - large amounts of frustration - solution - the bullet connectors from battery had come abpart (located inside square aluminium tube).
  • Sucessful 25 mile ride - mostly on setting 2, mostly in top gear except pulling off and worst hills, where 3 and 4 used. the legal limit was fine for my non electrically assisted colleagues. I found my feet were spinning very fast at 20 mile an hour (no electrical assist). 32 mile per hour down hill - but a bit scary. Battery indicator did not go down after this ride - either battery is bigger than I thought or it does not read accurately. Set display to 20 inch wheels. Need to set time.
  • It does what I want - commute to work and avoid sweat - keep up with colleagues that are fitter, thinner, younger on (for me) longish rides. For the question earlier, the steering bent above the crank works fine.
 

glerwill

Finding my (electric) wheels
Oct 19, 2013
22
3
  • Forgot to mention - had the adjusting the rear gears nightmare after the day after the 25 mile ride, I failed to go to work again. The chain was jumping off the rear sprocket or the idlers. Learned how to do h and l screws and adjust gears from youtube. Huge frustration - did not work. Took it to halfords where it caused a bit of a stir.
  • They diagnosed and replaced rear gear cable - the original had broke where it goes into the adjuster near the rear sprocket.
  • Problems for the future - get a new chain guide bracket - change the trailer to be quieter and not have a dogleg arm on it.
  • Huge thanks to my brother who did the awkward stuff on the original install.
 

anotherkiwi

Esteemed Pedelecer
Jan 26, 2015
7,845
5,780
The European Union
Are you using the original 46 tooth chainwheel with the motor? That would explain your spinning the pedals fast at 32 kph with 20" wheels. You might want to find a 48 or 50 tooth chainwheel. 32 kph is my unpowered average speed on the trike, I only put the motor in because of the near death experience I have climbing the hills to get away from home. The very limited casual testing I have done puts average speed with the motor at 35 kph (hill climbing included), it cuts assistance at around 30 kph.

Concerning battery usage you need to put a Watt meter in there to see how many Wh you are using per km. On casual testing I am down to 5.75 Wh/km average on the trike to be compared to 7.5 on an upright. You will be more efficient and you are only pushing as much air as an upright rider riding in tucked in position.

Sensation of speed on a trike is different because your backside is so close to the ground. Off the shelf the handling at speed made me slow down, fat tyres solved that issue and I have a top speed of around 70 kph down a couple of hills. To be compared to 67 kph max rolled up in a tiny ball on my first pedelec - that was scary...
 

glerwill

Finding my (electric) wheels
Oct 19, 2013
22
3
The tsd z2 has a 42t chain ring - and there is warnings against increasing it - inside there is a plastic helical gear, which some people replace with a brass one.

I guess I'll wait a while for things to settle down, before more changes.

I appreciate your help and advice
 

Bad Machine

Pedelecer
Sep 1, 2019
35
7
I would suppose the 42T stock chainring on the TSDZ2 was chosen to match the drive gearing on a 26" rear wheel ? To my knowledge, the most common highest gear would be an 11T (the smallest sprocket on a cassette or freewheel cluster). With some of us not using 26" - 700c (e.g. 20" drive wheels on most Hase Kettwiesel and Lepus trikes), yet still using similar 11-34 rear gearing, it should be possible to increase the size of the TSDZ2 chainring without increasing the strain on the motor beyond that expected on a "normal" 26" rear wheel.

FYI, you may want to bookmark this for a later date:

Compact Chainring Set Steel 110mm BCD 5 Arm - Silver - 50/34T

Not expensive, and could be worth a try ? I've ordered one for my 20" wheel trike conversion. I'll only need the larger of the two - unless we move from Suffolk to anywhere with real hills.
 
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