Having a faster e-bike in the UK

[flecc]

The subject of getting type approval for a faster e-bike regularly crops up in threads with the same questions being asked and doubts expressed, so I thought a thread to form a permanent reference point would be a good idea. Here I'm trying to cover the whole subject of what is necessary and possible.

TYPE APPROVAL

There are two forms of type approval, the normal one used by manufacturers and importers to gain approval for use on UK roads for a number of a given vehicle, and the Single Vehicle Type Approval Scheme. The latter is intended to cover such thing as personal imports of a vehicle not yet approved here and vehicles built by amateur constructors, and the standards required by the single vehicle scheme are much less strict than those for the commercial world.

For example, those with reasonable memories will recall TV news items on a motorised garden shed complete with window boxes being driven from inside it's windows, and a motorised double bed which had the driver within the bedclothes. Both of these were type approved, registered and taxed with number plates etc and driven regularly on the public roads. There have also been numerous individual commercial publicity equivalents such as the mobile beer bottle and coke bottles. For anyone not recalling any of these, there's also the 87 mph sofa which was use to transport visitors to and from an exhibition using our public roads, and you can see that demonstrated on this video.

None of these oddball examples would have a chance of getting manufacturer type approval for bulk production and sales, but Single Vehicle Approval wasn't a problem.

The examples clearly show that as long as a basically roadworthy vehicle is presented for testing, conformity with any existing vehicles isn't necessary and many of the usual requirements are waived, so getting a fast e-bike through single vehicle approval as a moped is not going to be difficult. Such an e-bike could be an existing fast design like the Kalkhoff Pro Connect S or any of the BikeTech Flyer F, HS or S series, or it could be one you've created yourself using a motor of up to 1000 Watt* rating. Links with details of the type approval scheme and test locations are given at the end of this section, the cost of the moped/light motorcycle Type Approval test is £78, and £16 for a retest should any item fail.

There's plenty of precedent since both the old autocycles and petrol add-on bike motors that are still sometimes used on the roads by enthusiasts are registered as motorcycles or mopeds now and both have many similarities to fast e-bikes, having part time pedals and bicycle like construction and use.

Apart from being a sound and strong e-bike with adequate brakes, a rear mudguard is necessary since a motorcycle style small format rear number plate will have to be mounted once registered, and there will have to be a brake light fitted, not a big problem since motorcycle brake light switches and number plates with stop lights are suitable for adaptation. A licence holder for the tax disc will need to be mounted on the left hand side of the bike, and it would be necessary to equip the bike with a horn of some kind. Lights are not a requirement but can be fitted of course. To ride a fast e-bike as a moped means an approved motorcycle helmet must be worn, but there are light open face models on the market and since the cycling effort won't be too great on a high powered e-bike there shouldn't be high discomfort levels.

The annual road tax is free for an electric vehicle, but an MOT test will be needed from three years onwards. From experience with other non-motorcycle types a motorcycle dealer does these on a virtual nod-through basis in minutes. Third party insurance is compulsory, but low cost electric moped insurance should suffice. Motorcycle parking restrictions also apply, but I doubt there'd be strict enforcement of that since there never has been with motorised bikes in the past. Number plate or not, they tend to be seen as ordinary bikes by parking enforcement officers who don't go looking in bike stands anyway. In fact it's common to see mopeds parked on pavements next to cycle stands in my area without them attracting any attention.

Single Vehicle Type Approval Scheme (scroll down for motorcycles)

Fees for type approval (scroll down for motorcycles, second type)

*There is no limit to the size of motor that can be presented for approval, but my reason for suggesting 1000 Watts is that it's the maximum permitted for approval in the lesser low speed (15 mph) moped class. Conforming to that is likely to make it all the easier for the type approval examiner to accept your bike.

DRIVING LICENCE NECESSARY

Anyone with a full car driving licence gained before 1st February 2001 is already qualified to ride a moped and no further test is necessary. That covers probably the majority of our members and certainly the majority of drivers in the UK.

Anyone with any form of full moped or motorcycle licence is also pre-qualified.

Those without one any these licence types will have to take a CBT course (Compulsory Basic Training) before taking the driving test to gain a moped (P group) licence. Some have raised the objection that CBT instructors and testers will not know how to cope with such a different vehicle, but that's their problem, not yours. They have had to cope in the past with many of the different types as they've been introduced, such as the petrol add on cycle motors, and will no doubt cope again. Alternatively, for those shy of any hint of difficulty, the simple answer is to do what many already do before committing to buying a moped, hire a moped for the CBT training and driving test.

SNAGS

The only minor difficulty I foresee in the process is getting the necessary third party insurance since the insurance industry prefers known situations to strange ones, so it would be wise to research that first. Probably the best way would be to try one of the brokers who specialise in motorcycle insurance, explaining that it's to be an e-bike which has to have insurance since it can exceed 15 mph assisted. Mentioning the £1000 E-Go and similar electric mopeds would provide a reference point for the broker. Since insurance is obtainable for 87 mph sofas, I'm quite sure it's much more easily available for a fast e-bike. Checking moped insurance online for a car licence holder of 40 years old in a London borough brought up a cheapest quote of £54, and that was without any no claims bonus, so the cost will be low for most people.

IS IT WORTH IT?

Personally I'd just buy a moped to get higher speeds, but for anyone who prefers to retain the pedalling and cycling aspects, and especially for those who just like having a unique vehicle they built themselves, the extra effort may well be worth it to them.
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[wibble]

A faster ebike may need to have the heavier and more reliable drum brakes too. I'm not sure if bicycle brakes would be reliable enough. and we'd need to change the pads every day.

 

[flecc]

A faster ebike may need to have the heavier and more reliable drum brakes too. I'm not sure if bicycle brakes would be reliable enough. and we'd need to change the pads every day.

Not at all, I think you've misunderstood what I'm speaking of. The present fast e-bikes that I've mentioned have normal cycle V brakes which are more than adequate, and in fact bicycle drum brakes are nowhere near good enough.

Remember we are only speaking of normal e-bike weight and speeds that bicycles regularly do anyway. Even with my small wheeled e-bike going to the supermarket it's 10 to 13 mph going and much of the time coming back at 25 to 28 mph downhill, and on my run down from the top of the North Downs it's five miles at 20 to 25 mph all the way.

This sort of thing is routine for bikes and whether a motor, pedalling or downhill gets them to those speeds doesn't matter. Road race riders run downhill in the alps for many miles at up to 60 mph on V brakes, and recumbent trikes hit up to 75 mph downhill with only cycle brakes to stop them.

Skilled cyclists don't use their brakes much anyway, and that would still apply whether motor driven to 25 mph or propelled any other way.
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[wibble]

Not at all, I think you've misunderstood what I'm speaking of. The present fast e-bikes that I've mentioned have normal cycle V brakes which are more than adequate, and in fact bicycle drum brakes are nowhere near good enough.

Remember we are only speaking of normal bike weight and speeds that bicycles regularly do anyway. Even with my small wheeled e-bike going to the supermarket it's 10 to 13 mph going and much of the time coming back at 25 to 28 mph downhill, and on my run down from the top of the North Downs it's five miles at 20 to 25 mph all the way.

This sort of thing is routine for bikes and whether a motor, pedalling or downhill gets them to those speeds doesn't matter. Road race riders run downhill in the alps for many miles at up to 60 mph on V brakes, and recumbent trikes hit up to 75 mph downhill with only V brakes to stop them.

Skilled cyclists don't use their brakes much anyway, and that would still apply whether motor driven to 25 mph or propelled any other way.
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Well I don't agree about the brakes. Drum brakes are incredibly robust and low maintenance. Whereas bicycle brakes need constant attention.

Don't forget, not everybody is a retired engineer, flecc.

Oh, and not everybody is a road racer and a skilled cyclist either!. We don't want to be changing our brake pads at the end of every run.

 

[torrent99]

Well I don't agree about the brakes. Drum brakes are incredibly robust and low maintenance. Whereas bicycle brakes need constant attention.

Agreed they do need a bit more love and attention, although the disc brakes don't seem to need as much

Don't forget, not everybody is a retired engineer, flecc.

However, I think we can assume if you've got a bike that needs type approval you're very likely to have built it yourself, so a bit of brake maintenance isn't likely to fase (sp?) you.


Anyway thanks Flecc for collating the info in a nice digestable form! It's worth a sticky (or a place in the sticky index) I think.

 

[flecc]

Well I don't agree about the brakes. Drum brakes are incredibly robust and low maintenance. Whereas bicycle brakes need constant attention.

Yes they are robust and low maintenance, but they aren't suitable for speed use since they overheat and glaze their pads. That's why they've only been specified on utility style bikes and why they are now almost defunct. The alternative roller type drum brakes which have gained in popularity for utility use are rather weak and certainly not good enough for fast bike use, as eZee found out when they put one on the Torq 1 rear wheel, prompting numerous complaints.

As torrent99 says, an owner could specify discs if they wanted lower maintenance and either way, Magura hydraulics would be a nice reliable touch on an expensive fast e-bike.

We don't want to be changing our brake pads at the end of every run.

I don't know where you get this notion from? As said, I use high downhill speeds all the time in my area and have changed no V brake pads on my two bikes since I created them in Spring 2007. They've completed thousands of miles since then, one of them doing over 3500 miles in the first half of last year when battery testing.

If someone is having to change their pads very frequently they really need to take a long hard look at their riding technique, since braking justs wastes the pedal and motor energy they put in in the first place, a bit pointless.
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[Cyclezee]

All of the high speed production e-bikes mentioned by Flecc have hydraulic rim or disc brakes which should be quite adequate for the performance of these bikes.
It would be interesting to hear from owners about how well their brakes perform.

J hn

 

[flecc]

Anyway thanks Flecc for collating the info in a nice digestable form! It's worth a sticky (or a place in the sticky index) I think.

Thanks, I thought it was about time all the info on this was brought together, since there seems to be so much interest in faster e-bikes as some current threads show.

I daresay Russ or Richard will move the thread into the technical section for future reference.
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[wibble]

Yes they are robust and low maintenance, but they aren't suitable for speed use since they overheat and glaze their pads. That's why they've only been specified on utility style bikes and why they are now almost defunct. The alternative roller type drum brakes which have gained in popularity for utility use are rather weak and certainly not good enough for fast bike use, as eZee found out when they put one on the Torq 1 rear wheel, prompting numerous complaints.

As torrent99 says, an owner could specify discs if they wanted lower maintenance and either way, Magura hydraulics would be a nice reliable touch on an expensive fast e-bike.


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Yeah, I think disc brakes would be a good compromise. To be honest the reason why I suggested drum brakes was because I was thinking in terms of ebikes becoming more like mopeds as they increased in speed. But thinking about it further I realized that most mopeds now come with disc brakes anyway.

 

[flecc]

Yeah, I think disc brakes would be a good compromise. To be honest the reason why I suggested drum brakes was because I was thinking in terms of ebikes becoming more like mopeds as they increased in speed. But thinking about it further I realized that most mopeds now come with disc brakes anyway.

Yes, mopeds do seem to have gone that way now. However, heres the fast Matra e-bike that can be taken through UK type approval, and I'd dare any examiner to say the disc brakes weren't good enough.

 

[wibble]

Yes, mopeds do seem to have gone that way now. However, heres the fast Matra e-bike that can be taken through UK type approval, and I'd dare any examiner to say the disc brakes weren't good enough.

Wow, looks like a meat slicer.

Maybe a good ebike for James Bond..

 

[Schwinnfan]

a further consideration?

Evening Flecc. I have been thinking A 12v bike battery charged by an on-board generator with the electric motor powering bike. Clearly a different hybrid set up but a slow running motor such as the Australian Rotary motor might just do the trick. The obvious downside is that it would weigh a ton. A smaller battery with small generator might just be possible.

Where would that stand on the rules?

Phil

 

[flecc]

As long as it couldn't exceed 30 mph that would also be eligible for type approval to run in the moped class since the power system can be of any type Phil.

As you say it could be quite heavy and probably heavier than an equivalent battery powered pure electric bike, though it could have a long range.

Alternatively a petrol/electric could be taken through approval for the lesser 15 mph limited low power moped class, so no better performance but the chance of very long range.

Here's one, Panasonic crank motor with battery, plus front hub motor plus a generator on the carrier.

 

[Schwinnfan]

hybrid bikes

Thanks for that Tony. You can achieve the range easier and lighter with a second battery and probably lighter with a third one lol. But, that system give you the option, size allowing, of charging your battery whilst you have a coffee.

OK, next thought, triangular solar panels between the cross bar, or a false cross bar, facing each way and double sided solar solid wheels . Assuming no loss to connections, that sort of surface area would give you 100 watt at 12v, 8 amp ish. In reality that would give about 3 or 4 amps but constantly. Then, regenerative braking, a bike doing 25mph down hill has a lot of kinetic energy, even with large wastage a useful amperage could be put back in.
If the regen or KERS as they call it F1, gave a 10% help and the solar could match it we could increase range seriously and a parked bike would charge all day.

Wind resistance is of course the largest user of energy on a bike, unless you really amble. The solid wheels (solar) would go some way to helping and a slight repositioning of the rider might be considered.

Next, it strikes me that the Panasonic battey could be enlarged and still fit in really easily. Assuming the voltage remains the same, a 14amp battery would grant you a proportional increase in range with the electric system handling it no problem and weighing only 40% more (in theory).

I know that you have extended batteries for other bikes , have you ever tried it on a Panasonic driven one. I believe the battery has loads of onboard software.

Hell its Saturday night and red wine makes me think.

Phil

 

[flecc]

I don't think solar is serious for a performance bike though, so that idea can be fully exploited within the existing 15 mph e-bike legislation. There have been many solar designs but useful outputs have only been gained when the panels have been optimally angled in sunny climes like Australia. Vertical panels in our climate wouldn't produce anything really usable, and using rechargeable batteries as at present is a better option since they can be charged at base from more efficient panels.

Regeneration has always been a bit of a non-starter on e-bikes, there isn't enough kinetic energy with such low mass and it entails swapping speed downhill for energy gain. Since using the kinetic energy direct in going faster downhill avoids the conversion loss, I prefer that way which most of us already use.

Likewise regenerative braking, cycling's lower speeds enables efficient cyclists to avoid braking most of the time, so there's little to recover.

I've never tried larger than 10 Ah on the Panasonic system but there's no reason for not having it. Panasonic have normally designed for their home market where they often fit very small batteries, that apparently being ok there, but a larger battery would be useful on their high speed S unit given its 27 mph capability and higher current demands.
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[cxthompson]

Thanks for the information, I've recently purchased a converted KMX Trike with twin batteries which rather shockingly pulls at 28mph along the flat. I was thinking I would have to sell it because it would be illegal to ride. However now I think single vehicle type approval seems the way forward! Has anyone experience of getting an e-bike through?

 

[flecc]

I've never known of anyone doing it, so you could be a first in this field. I'll be interested if you go ahead since your KMX has much in common with the velomobiles that are common in the low countries, some of them e-powered and very fast.

P.S. The only possible snag I see is that they may require it to be treated as a three wheeler car without reverse gear, the same class as the Reliant three wheelers. For those a full car or motorcycle driving licence is needed, rather than a moped licence, but maybe you already have one of those.
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[JohnInStockie]

I've never known of anyone doing it, so you could be a first in this field. I'll be interested if you go ahead since your KMX has much in common with the velomobiles that are common in the low countries, some of them e-powered and very fast.
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Maybe an electric one of these go-one

 

[flecc]

Maybe an electric one of these go-one

There are quite a few like that in Europe John, and some have been specifically designed with rear wheel power.
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[cxthompson]

So no ideas of whether it's possible.. I'm also thinking insurance might be a problem, although kit car insurance might be an option?