Having to replace Cassette after only 500 miles Cube Touring Pro 625

guerney

Esteemed Pedelecer
Sep 7, 2021
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The spec says you have an M5100 derailleur
Has that become very slightly twisted and bent by being dropped? Too many holes for my liking, looks flimsy but might not be.




Or has the derailleur and/or hanger been further bent by mad high Bosch motor torque, after either or both were twisted a little initially by the drop? Has the new hanger been twisted because of the already slightly twisted derailleur being subjected to high torque by the motor while at the wrong angle?

If the end stop for highest gear (smallest cog) is slightly off, might one inner side of the chain be rubbing against it, hopping up slightly when motor power/high friction is applied, instead of sitting central?

The OP's bike is 17 years newer than mine, which always requires the removal of two chain links because the derailleur spring isn't as springy anymore (took bloody ages of fiddling about to figure that out). I wouldn't expect link removal to be necessary for a brand new bike, any reduction in link count from the stated spec. But if all adjustments via screws etc. doesn't fix it, as others who actually know loads about bicycles have suggested, I'd try removing a link at a time, test, repeat if necessary, to increase chain tension.

This sort of thing is of course very annoying. Whatever is causing this issue is bound to be fixed eventually. Hope we learn whatever the solution turns out to be.


You know if Heaven exists, you won't be going there, dontcha? ;):D:D
The denizens of hell are no doubt not bug eyed, because they're not retending for evermore. Steaming piles of baking poo all over the place.
 
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AndyBike

Esteemed Pedelecer
Nov 8, 2020
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You know if Heaven exists, you won't be going there, dontcha? ;):D:D
Always keep your equipment clean.

He's only ever got one lumber from doon the dancin'. Evening ended abruptly when she said "Get away from me with that skanky thing"

Once word gets round ...
 
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guerney

Esteemed Pedelecer
Sep 7, 2021
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Always keep your equipment clean.
How can it possibly get any cleaner than this?


56352


Also, why? You get diminishing returns for functionality cleaning after a certain point, after which it becomes a perverse and disgusting fetish which causes the body to retend stuff which must not be, leading to bug eyes all bloodshot and many strange uncontrollable high pitched nasal noises as noxious gasses leak through tear ducts and other places not designed for it, which rupture and get very stinky. I see anal people.

Besides, I got:

3,986 km/2,476.79 miles
...from my last cassette (see @matthewslack's chain measurements thread), which is near your stated max:

Usually a cassette will last 3000-4000km

Evening ended abruptly when she said "Get away from me with that skanky thing"
Bits rot off sometimes, told her to keep the tip.
 
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mrpie

Finding my (electric) wheels
Feb 9, 2024
13
2
View attachment 56343

View attachment 56345

I mistakenly thought the chain had been checked. [Duh.]



Or maybe it has?



But maybe not with a good tool?

It's easy to see why L/L would say the cassette is toast. Those teeth look like they've been peened by the chain. That must have taken some doing.

Hard to imagine the chain is in good shape running over those teeth. Even if the chain hasn't "stretched" (worn) I'd be checking the inside of the links for cuts from that damage.

If the chain is in really bad shape, and the cassette needs replacing, might the chainring also be kaput?

I'm surprised the blueing (finish) on the cassette is worn as it has. I'd expect the wear to be more uniform around the whole circumference, not just the high and low points as seen in the pictures. What is not shown, is if the cassette is running true, meaning all the sprockets are parallel and each one is flat. Unlikely the axle is bent, but is it being sat in the dropouts correctly, everytime the wheel is refitted? [My first ever disc only bike a 2000? Claud Butler Cape Wrath IIRC, left the LBS with me riding it and the front QR undone. I didn't find out until a mile later, fortunately while lifting the bike into my car. Seems the shop closed last November apparently after 34 years.]

The videos were easier to watch (in fact the only way I could watch them) was to download them first from Google Drive, and play them locally on my computer.

I've watched them both about 5 times each, and I am no less confused. The movement down (hard gears to easier gears) seems to be a problem detailed in both videos, but indicated at different positions on the cassette?

Read elsewhere:

"Poor shifting down the cassette is likely caused by excess friction in the system. The cable tension may be excessive or dirt or other physical impediments to cable movements are present. So start at the beginning and inspect cabling from shifter to derailleur. Disconnect the cable from the derailleur (note whether you've correctly routed the inner cable at the pinch bolt) and taking a section of cabling at a time, manipulate the shifter while holding the inner cable taught with your fingers noting any deviation from perfectly smooth in the cable movement. Worn ferrules or kinks in the outer cable are common points of friction. You've made a lot of changes and if the same cabling was used between shifters, there's lots of opportunity to contaminate or slightly damage the inner cable at change over. Pushing inner cable through the outer moves grease along and abrades the outers' inner liner. If your cable routing is internal and where it exits the frame, if there is a cable clamping mechanism there, make sure that isn't so tight that it's making a dent in the outer cable. Lots of things to look for and excess friction is the number one cause of poor shifting especially down the cassette."

A kink in the cable, or debris somewhere could have explained the issue with the middle gear that wouldn't index correctly, but doesn't explain why a new hanger fixed the problem? As indicated earlier, if indexing for one is out, it's likely (logically) out for them all.

Doing some purchasing research about 5 weeks ago, I considered upgrading my 8 speed (3x8) which is super reliable, to something like a 3 x 9 or 2 x10. Sunrace cassettes are very attractively priced, so I considered a purchase. Further research suggested by a professional reviewer, the Sunrace cassette produced less reliable gear changes, so it left my shopping list.

Trying to find tht review, my search criteria turned up a number of results relating to the problem identified here. Apparently, the higher/smaller gears are prone to early wear, and prone to skipping, especially on e-bikes. Both Shimano and Sunrace sell these replacement rings in 'kits' for that very reason. Sometimes a move to a Shimano cassette improves things, sometimes (less frequently) a Sunrace cassette improves things. Whatever happens next, I think a new cassette and chain are on the cards for this bike. :(

Have you checked the wheel bearings are as tight as they should be?

If you have one of these, are you putting it on the right way around?

View attachment 56349


This is the WRONG way around as this is the return chainline heading toward the derailleur.
I posted a picture earlier on with the chain checker on the chain but it only checks for 0.75-1 wear. The Park tool is 0.5/0.75.

Good spot on those bent edges, i cant lie. I have skipped hard in some cases and being on the heavier side doesn't help lol.

I have a KMC chain which doesn't have any intended direction. Either way is fine i believe so it wont be that. I've not seen any damage on the chain itself but i think at this point i might just buy a new chain and cassette and see if that fixes the issue.

Think i'll go for a Shimano cassette... The sunrace is definitely not cheap, it's £90 for the 11-51T that i currently have installed...
 

FastFreddy2

Pedelecer
Apr 19, 2023
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I have a KMC chain which doesn't have any intended direction. Either way is fine i believe so it wont be that. I've not seen any damage on the chain itself but i think at this point i might just buy a new chain and cassette and see if that fixes the issue.

Think i'll go for a Shimano cassette... The sunrace is definitely not cheap, it's £90 for the 11-51T that i currently have installed...
The point wasn't about the chain (although some are directional), but the quick-link you might be using? The curve of the quick-link has to correspond with the curve of the chainwheel when the chain goes around it. That ensures it's the right way up/around, when it gets to the cassette. If it isn't the right way up/around, it can cause gear skipping.
 
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mrpie

Finding my (electric) wheels
Feb 9, 2024
13
2
The point wasn't about the chain (although some are directional), but the quick-link you might be using? The curve of the quick-link has to correspond with the curve of the chainwheel when the chain goes around it. That ensures it's the right way up/around, when it gets to the cassette. If it isn't the right way up/around, it can cause gear skipping.
Sorry, misread your post.

56365

There are no directional arrows to show the correct way as per this picture.
 

matthewslack

Esteemed Pedelecer
Nov 26, 2021
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I posted a picture earlier on with the chain checker on the chain but it only checks for 0.75-1 wear. The Park tool is 0.5/0.75.

Good spot on those bent edges, i cant lie. I have skipped hard in some cases and being on the heavier side doesn't help lol.

I have a KMC chain which doesn't have any intended direction. Either way is fine i believe so it wont be that. I've not seen any damage on the chain itself but i think at this point i might just buy a new chain and cassette and see if that fixes the issue.

Think i'll go for a Shimano cassette... The sunrace is definitely not cheap, it's £90 for the 11-51T that i currently have installed...


Both UK bike shops selling on ebay.

I buy several chains, one for the extra links each 114 link chain needs, so you also need a chain tool, then use 2 or 3 chains in rotation to give the cassette an easier life. Say 200 miles on chain 1, 400 on chain 2, 400 on chain 3, and so on. With relatively cheap chains, it should help the cassette last maybe twice as long.
 

matthewslack

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Nov 26, 2021
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The point wasn't about the chain (although some are directional), but the quick-link you might be using? The curve of the quick-link has to correspond with the curve of the chainwheel when the chain goes around it. That ensures it's the right way up/around, when it gets to the cassette. If it isn't the right way up/around, it can cause gear skipping.
No, the quicklink is two identical halves, one pointing each way.... there is no wrong way! Think rotational symmetry, order 2.
 

FastFreddy2

Pedelecer
Apr 19, 2023
186
87
Sorry, misread your post.

View attachment 56365

There are no directional arrows to show the correct way as per this picture.
Okay. :cool: Another possible cause ruled out.

I don't think your chain is a CSMS8 BTW.

56367

That said, it looks like while I can't find it on the Sunrace website, it's available as an OEM item??


56368



Not that it makes any difference to what you will be replacing the current cassette with, assuming you don't just replace the two highest/smallest cogs, which might be cheaper than replacing the whole cassette? The £50 Shimano option looks attractive though.
 
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FastFreddy2

Pedelecer
Apr 19, 2023
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Doing a search on EBay (as opposed to Chimazon), I found 3 of the Sunrace 11-51T cassettes on offer on or around £50, and although the first seller with an unboxed cassette didn't declare it, the other two were 'take-offs', meaning removed from brand new bikes. The retail version of the Sunrace 11-51T cassette looks to be the CSMX80. Does this intimate there is a known problem with the CSMS8 cassette in some circles?

Every other suitable cassette I found in the right price range (up to £80) was a Shimano.

Edit:
I've just realised a bike I bought off Halfords late last year has an 11-51 x 11 speed cassette. It hasn't been used and is currently parked against an inside wall where it's been for about 3 months. :oops: I've just checked and even that (incredibly cheap) bike has a Shimano CS-M5100-11, 11-51T cassette.
 
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matthewslack

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Nov 26, 2021
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Off the wall solution....

If your riding only needs the top few gears, would a cheap 8 speed setup make sense? Cheap as chips to replace bits, saves the expensive 11 speed for more demanding riding, might make the bike marginally less attractive as a theft target?
 
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mrpie

Finding my (electric) wheels
Feb 9, 2024
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I'm gonna contact the bike shop where i bought it. Still under warranty, still dont think its acceptable to be replacing the cassette with how much riding i've done so i'll see what they say. I'll have to free up a day to visit them. If no luck i'll grab the shimano cassette unless anyone knows where i can source the small cogs for the sunrace?

Theft is a non issue, I mainly use it for commuting to work and its locked inside the building. My Litelok X3 will make my bike less attractive to steal should i ever decide to lock it outside.
 

matthewslack

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Nov 26, 2021
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Look forward to the outcome!
 
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FastFreddy2

Pedelecer
Apr 19, 2023
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I'm gonna contact the bike shop where i bought it. Still under warranty, still dont think its acceptable to be replacing the cassette with how much riding i've done so i'll see what they say. I'll have to free up a day to visit them.
Almost certainly, their understandable first response will be "lack of lubrication". Hopefully your chain is within specifications (and is seems to be) which will help support your claim of a potentially faulty cassette. If you can avoid a visit that will be costly to you, I would recommend that. Try to work something out with the shop that might include posting your current cassette to them, or clean off the cassette and take several detailed photographs of the damaged teeth. I can't see anyone suggesting a lack of maintenance could cause that. Ideally, they will post you a gratis replacement, that might be a Shimano one. The alternative is they replace it in store by appointment, so you can take the bike back home with you. "Leave it with us" is a non-starter. Changing a cassette is a 10-15 minute job.

I've been reading some awful things about big brand bike manufacturers recently, and watching videos about how poorly some bikes are made and assembled. I tried to get Kona to address a small but important manufacturing fault with my bike, and got no response from them at all. :confused:

Good luck. :cool:
 

saneagle

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Oct 10, 2010
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I've been reading some awful things about big brand bike manufacturers recently, and watching videos about how poorly some bikes are made and assembled. I tried to get Kona to address a small but important manufacturing fault with my bike, and got no response from them at all. :confused:

Good luck. :cool:
Tell that to the forum members, who think that those sort of bikes don’t get problems. Compare your experience with those that bought Woosh and Wisper bikes.

While I'm at it, when I visited Earnshaws of Huddersfield a few years back, the Bosch CX motors were literally piled high waiting for replacements that weren't available.
 
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mrpie

Finding my (electric) wheels
Feb 9, 2024
13
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So chain checker came in. Still all good as it doesn't through 0.5m so can only assume its the cassette. Here's the following response from the bike shop. Looks like i might try out a new cassette. Ebikes tend to go faster than normal bikes so using the lower gears will be likely, Rarely a need to swap to different gears as the motor will take care of any steep hills and such, seems like a catch 22.

Having reviewed the photo of your cassette i can clearly see you are predominantly using the bottom 3 sprockets which as i mentioned in the previous email this will greatly increase the wear on the cassette and chain if the full range of gears are not being used. Regardless of the age of the bike we would expect the customer to pay for worn parts. The strain of the motor will have caused the cassette to loosen over time as the pressure from the bottom 3 sprockets being used exclusively could cause the lock ring to loosen slightly.
 

matthewslack

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Nov 26, 2021
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Rarely a need to swap to different gears as the motor will take care of any steep hills and such, seems like a catch 22.
This is the problem! High torque motor in high assistance setting will get you up most hills without complaining, even if the cadence (pedal rpm) drops a fair amount. Easy to ride like that, but will destroy the only used gear in short order.

If you ride a bit differently, by keeping cadence roughly constant using the gears as gradient changes, fit a bigger chain ring so that comfortable 25km/h is not top gear, that will help, by spreading wear over more cogs, each of which has more teeth.

And use lower assist levels, do more work yourself, again will reduce loads through the chain.

If all that is exactly not what you want to do, then I think you have the wrong bike type for your riding. Cadence sensored rear hub might suit you much better.
 

mrpie

Finding my (electric) wheels
Feb 9, 2024
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It has been something i've adjusted to in the last few hundred miles. Maybe it wasn't smart jumping to an ebike after many years of not riding a normal one. :p

Pedalling off at lights is awful at times, it does at times feel like i'm fighting against the motor instead of it working with me.

I think i can chalk this lesson to bad driving habits on an ebike. Will install a new cassette in the next week or two and see how it gets on.
 

matthewslack

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Nov 26, 2021
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Doesn't take long to get used to it! And from your last, just change down before stopping and you won't be fighting the motor pulling away.
 
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guerney

Esteemed Pedelecer
Sep 7, 2021
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If you ride a bit differently, by keeping cadence roughly constant using the gears as gradient changes, fit a bigger chain ring so that comfortable 25km/h is not top gear, that will help, by spreading wear over more cogs, each of which has more teeth.
Is the OP's chainring only 38T? If so, no wonder he's constantly using those highest gears. I would too if my cadence sensored mid-drive had a tiny 38T, instead of 52T.

https://www.pedelecs.co.uk/forum/threads/anyone-changed-the-front-chainring-cube-reaction-pro.40952/
 
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