Hello and where have all the sellers gone

[tostig]

Hi, I am nearly 70 years old, male, 6 feet tall, and live in Saddleworth, half way up a Pennine. My wife and I are motorhomers and like going to France. It is not really practical to park a motorhome in a town and we have seen most of the villages and outskirts of towns in France and would like a means of transport into some town centres. Electric bikes seem to be an answer.
You seem to have a rather splendid forum. I had so many questions to ask, but I find that most of them have already been answered.
One thing that strikes me as odd is the lack of shops in the North of England.
We have so many hills, yet it seems that all the best hill climbing ebikes can only be tested down south(ish). Kalkhoff in Loughborough, Woosh in Southend/Cambridge, Tonaro in Devon, KTM in Norfolk. That means about £80 of diesel just to go and see them and probably about £200 to go and see them all. And in many cases no adequate hills to test them on!

 

[Artstu]

FLI in Delph FLi Distribution moves offices | Bicycle Business | BikeBiz

I was under the impression they were just the importer, but the article gives a different impression.

 

[timidtom]

Bob Wales in Buxton might be worth a visit - perhaps by rail?
Happy hunting,
Tom

 

[Artstu]

Bob Wales in Buxton might be worth a visit - perhaps by rail?
Happy hunting,
Tom

and the New Mills shop is a fraction closer Contact Juicy Bike: stylish electric bikes and scooters although none of the bikes are to my taste.

 

[flecc]

It was ever thus! Battery powered vehicles having the disadvantage of total weight impairing hill climbing means those selling them have usually operated from flat areas to avoid the problem. I can give many examples.

However, in addition e-bikes are paradoxically always more popular in flatter areas than hilly areas, the most obvious example being Holland where they don't have hills but have the highest pro-rata e-bike sales in the world! One in six of all bikes sold there is an e-bike, here in the much hillier UK it's usually one in 100.

That probably seems weird, but I think it probably reflects cycling being less popular in the most hilly areas. Since e-bike buyers are usually people who either already ride bikes or are previously experienced cyclists, being already in areas suited to cycling predisposes higher e-bike sales in those areas.

 

[tostig]

FLI in Delph FLi Distribution moves offices | Bicycle Business | BikeBiz

I was under the impression they were just the importer, but the article gives a different impression.

I have spoken to them on the phone. They are indeed just round the corner from me, about 1.5 miles away (big corner) and they seem to be really nice and helpful. But the article was not really correct and they are the importers and not a retailer and do not have things like demo bikes. However if something turns up that allows me to get a demo then they will let me know

 

[tostig]

It was ever thus! Battery powered vehicles having the disadvantage of total weight impairing hill climbing means those selling them have usually operated from flat areas to avoid the problem. I can give many examples.

Yes, I think that you are right, sadly.
Perhaps it also means that I, in my search for an ebike that can take me home up my 1 in 5 hill, will be disappointed. Unless, perhaps, I go down the unlawful £3000 route and buy the Bosch Sport which does 28mph which I do not want at all.
Perhaps, in time, I will discover a legal extra powerful machine though I doubt it because if it has the power there will be many who direct that power at going fast thus forcing legislators to always ban such things. Isn't that what happened to mopeds?

Meanwhile, thank you all for posting replies.

David

 

[johnc461165]

Hi David there is this place in Bolton, three friends of mine have got e-bikes from there and have been happy with their service. https://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=1&cad=rja&sqi=2&ved=0CC0QFjAA&url=http://www.valleyscooters.co.uk/&ei=gQEGUpPqNOqW0AXt3ICgDQ&usg=AFQjCNGh51fYbK3y4yJHDE04WsuRfF43Aw

 

[flecc]

Perhaps it also means that I, in my search for an ebike that can take me home up my 1 in 5 hill, will be disappointed.

There are two options for that David. One is the crank drive route, meaning you can get the torque to climb the hill merely by changing down gears to the reducing speed point where your contribution plus the motor input is a comfortable balance. These have selectable power levels so you can chose a high power mode for climbing that hill while using lower modes elsewhere for longer range. The best current options for you at present are those e-bikes with the legal Bosch power unit or the Kalkhoffs with their Impulse unit. Both require some degree of input from you, in high power mode it means you need to supply one third of the input needed for that hill.

If you are moderately fit another option is a legal but powerful hub motor bike, the most powerful of those being the eZee bikes with their own design hub motor. This option from CycleZee if it suits will give you faster hill climbing. The peak power of these is about 40% greater than the crank units mentioned above which have their powers somewhat constrained by the need to conserve the bike's chain transmission which has to carry both rider and motor inputs.

 

[Kudoscycles]

Kevin at Leek Cycle Solutions near Stoke on Trent.....he is a genuinely nice guy and really knowledgeable....our Kudos Arriba(hub drive),Kudos Ibex(crank drive) are good hillclimbers....the best hillclimbing bike I have ever ridden is the KTM e-race Panasonic in the 26" wheel size....
A bike you maybe have not considered is a 20" folder,the Kudos Secret bike is often sold to motorhomers,usually in pairs,it is light at 18kgs and a much better hillclimber than its appearance would suggest.
hope that helps
KudosDave

 

[Growbag]

Welcome tostig from another newbie
Interesting point flecc has made about ebikes being most popular in less hilly areas. I know cycling is quite popular in the Peak district where my wifes family are from, a couple of whom are keen cyclists. Unfortunately they pour scorn on ebikes, so I wonder if this attitude exists amongst many cyclists in the more hilly areas, hence the lack of interest? Would more organised ebike events in these areas help raise awareness and interest? Here we have a whole topic on its own.

 

[Artstu]

I know cycling is quite popular in the Peak district where my wifes family are from, a couple of whom are keen cyclists. Unfortunately they pour scorn on ebikes, so I wonder if this attitude exists amongst many cyclists in the more hilly areas, hence the lack of interest? Would more organised ebike events in these areas help raise awareness and interest? Here we have a whole topic on its own.

There is certainly a stigma attached to riding an e-bike. I'm doing my little bit to try and spread the word around me

 

[Growbag]

There is certainly a stigma attached to riding an e-bike. I'm doing my little bit to try and spread the word around me

Nice work. Certainly some beautiful scenery and great cycling routes around the Peak District. As I said to the wife's family, ebikes are about enhancing cycling not eradicating it. Something I shall remind my wife's family when they cant make it up Mam Tor

 

[D C]

I'm doing my little bit to try and spread the word around me

Quite right! I've had lots of chat's with other cyclists who I've met whilst out on my bike and all have been impressed and interested.
I think it's best that e-bikers should be quite open about the electric aspect of the bike.
There seems to be almost a feeling of shame being promoted even by some e-bikers and manufacturers with "stealth" bikes and designs which seek to hide the assisted aspect, I think we should all be less defensive of our e-bikes.
Having said that I do realise that some folk with slightly "modified" bikes will not wish to shout about them and fully understand that!
Now where can I get a sticker that says "this is an e-bike"
Getting slightly back on topic I sympathise with the OP, it's so frustrating when you live in an area where you can't try before you buy, one of the original reasons I fitted a kit rather than buy an e-bike.
Dave.

 

[flecc]

I know cycling is quite popular in the Peak district where my wifes family are from, a couple of whom are keen cyclists. Unfortunately they pour scorn on ebikes, so I wonder if this attitude exists amongst many cyclists in the more hilly areas, hence the lack of interest?

This is really a reflection of the point I made. The cyclists that do exist in the more hilly areas are inclined to be sport biased to meet the challenge, so are understandably always the least likely to buy e-bikes. The unpopularity of general purpose cycling in hilly areas is therefore still the main factor which severely limits the e-bike buying potential.

I doubt organised events would make much difference to a British public which views cycling as a physically challenging sporting activity. This is why the accusations of cheating, they view an assist motor as akin to going to a gym and having a winch to help one lift the weights. Their viewpoint has logic in that context.

 

[trex]

the problem may be purely economics. The UK market is simply too small at present.
An e-bike business needs a minimum of 3 employees and at least £120,000 gross profit from sales per annum to pay any dividend.
Not many towns or cities can generate that much business locally, hence e-bike businesses tend to be based in the more densely populated South.

 

[flecc]

I'm not so sure about that Trex. Those who sell through the internet and phone can be anywhere and are in such places as Buxton, Loughborough, Kidderminster, Presteigne and Plymouth, hardly centres of high population density.

And those who sell through bike shops can equally be anywhere. Though the bike shops need a good supply of customers it often surprises me the low density areas they can be in. Of the three e-bikes I've owned, the supplier for two was in Loughborough and the other bought through a dealer came from Giant's supply centre in The Netherlands.

 

[Growbag]

This is really a reflection of the point I made. The cyclists that do exist in the more hilly areas are inclined to be sport biased to meet the challenge, so are understandably always the least likely to buy e-bikes. The unpopularity of general purpose cycling in hilly areas is therefore still the main factor which severely limits the e-bike buying potential.

I doubt organised events would make much difference to a British public which views cycling as a physically challenging sporting activity. This is why the accusations of cheating, they view an assist motor as akin to going to a gym and having a winch to help one lift the weights. Their viewpoint has logic in that context.

I think flecc is spot on re-the sporting aspect. But there must be large numbers of people in these areas that would enjoy ebikes for 'leisure cycling' or simply for a short commute. Maybe an organised event in somewhere such as Buxton, Congleton or Holmfirth could help reach these people?
I think Trex could also be right about the economics - which probably would hinder such an event.

 

[Blew it]

One thing that strikes me as odd is the lack of shops in the North of England.

There are two shops retailing electric bikes which may interest you, Both shops are approx. sixty-three miles from Saddleworth.

The shop which may interest you most is in Knaresborough. I say this because they stock the Bosch powered Ave MH-7 semi-folder. This machine, although not fully folding, can nevertheless be reduced in size small enought to fit in underbed storage compartments.

The Ave MH7 is an excellent hill-climber for two reasons, it's a drive through the chain system and, it's a 20" wheeled bike. A one-time forum member, also a motorhomer, speaks very highly of this machine, both in terms of quality, stowability and hill climbing.

AVE MH7 IN KNARESBOROUGH.

Also around the same distance to travel, The Electric Transport Shop in York. This shop stocks full sized bikes such as the Bosch crank driven KTM machines, also an excellent hill-climber.

ELECTRIC TRANSPORT SHOP, YORK

Both stores recommend 'phoning before visiting, just to make sure they have the desired machines in stock.

 

[trex]

I'm not so sure about that Trex. Those who sell through the internet and phone can be anywhere and are in such places as Buxton, Loughborough, Kidderminster, Presteigne and Plymouth, hardly centres of high population density.

And those who sell through bike shops can equally be anywhere. Though the bike shops need a good supply of customers it often surprises me the low density areas they can be in. Of the three e-bikes I've owned, the supplier for two was in Loughborough and the other bought through a dealer came from Giant's supply centre in The Netherlands.

the location of those internet based sellers is determined by the home town of their founders - the bulk of sales is through traditional distribution, some 500 LBS that do both sport bikes and e-bikes and about 50 e-bike specialized retail outlets. The last few openings are in London, that proves my point.