Helmet debate... new twist

flecc

Member
Oct 25, 2006
49,682
27,442
Surely this reflects the number of 4 wheel vehicles on the roads, causing accidents? And in those cases a helmet would most probably not have had any life saving effect.
I'm not too sure, the chart is percentage based, and although the ratio of 4 wheels to 2 is very high in somewhere like the USA, they also have the vehicles spread over a far larger area. I doubt if the city traffic densities are much different between many of those countries.
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flecc

Member
Oct 25, 2006
49,682
27,442
Flecc - you must have a graph or chart for any statistic we can think of!
I do collect and file the interesting and useful ones that I come across, never known if they might come in useful. :)
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flecc

Member
Oct 25, 2006
49,682
27,442
is this the thin end of the wedge.....?
Definitely not. Both recent political party governments have firmly blocked private members attempts to introduce this for the UK. They know it will kill any attempts to get youngsters back on bikes cycling, contra to policy. The Channel Islands often do odd things, for example they once had bicycle registration with number plates on all bikes!!!

In addition all EU countries are committed to harmonisation of law in many areas, roads and transport being in the forefront for that objective. That's why we are getting the pedelecs law shortly, and Europe is anti helmet compulsion.
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eTim

Esteemed Pedelecer
Nov 19, 2009
607
2
Andover, Hants.
That's why we are getting the pedelecs law shortly, and Europe is anti helmet compulsion.
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Yes sometimes it works in our favour, sometimes not!
 

Lloyd

Pedelecer
Jan 22, 2010
166
0
Having recently just been over to Jersey and Guernsey, it seems to be a topic of hot debate ATM. From what I have heard they are considering looking at it in Guernesey also, but I doubt it will ever happen here.

If we were to use anything from Jerseys traffic system please god let it be the filter system. It is amazing! Much better than traffic lights and roundabouts. :rolleyes: Works a treat in the states too.
 

Memran

Pedelecer
Jan 13, 2010
39
0
I am 100% against compulsory anything.

People, in general, are not stupid. I would much rather try to ensure that people have the necessary information and statistics to make an informed decision for their own safety.
All this 'nanny' stuff is adversely affecting society as a whole. The whole "Where there is blame, there is a claim" situation makes landowners, councils, forestry commissions, schools, employers and any other organisation or place you can think of paranoid about health and safety. People who would like to do things for their community become reluctant to do so due the need to public liability insurance and the minefield of legalities.
 

Alex728

Esteemed Pedelecer
Dec 16, 2008
1,109
-1
Ipswich
I am 100% against compulsory anything.
All this 'nanny' stuff is adversely affecting society as a whole. The whole "Where there is blame, there is a claim" situation makes landowners, councils, forestry commissions, schools, employers and any other organisation or place you can think of paranoid about health and safety. People who would like to do things for their community become reluctant to do so due the need to public liability insurance and the minefield of legalities.
this is more a case of restricting the power of private insurance companies and the legal profession who are the ones actually pushing these cases through the Courts. Which of course would cause bleating in the media about people being "denied justice".

I've found since the 80s/90s the real reason "nanny" has shown her face is because the other kids in the playground have told a lot of tales to get themselves above you!
 

piotrmacheta

Esteemed Pedelecer
Jun 23, 2009
316
0
I agree that information and not legislation is the key here. From my own experiences I always wear a helmet when I go cycling and I have once been knocked off my bike and landed on my bum - the helmet was untouched even though I rolled over a car bonnet and onto the ground. BUT with my son it has been a different story - I made him wear a helmet from a young age and he knows no different and when he fell off his bike at age 11 he hit his head on the ground and cracked his helmet - apart from being a bit dazed he was OK - round one to the helmet.
Of my cycling friends I have 2 that have crashed seriously - one at speed into the back of a parked van and one when a rabbit ran into the front wheel and he went over his handlebars and the helmets saved them - totalled the helmets in both cases. They still ended up in hospital and one with smashed vertebrae in the neck.

From this experience all my family always wear helmets - buy the trendy ones with lots of vents and the kids love them (they do cost a lot thought).
Just thought that I'd share this with you guys.

In conclusion a helmet may or may not save you but it won't do any harm just in case.
 

Xcytronex

Pedelecer
Jul 23, 2009
139
0
I agree that information and not legislation is the key here. From my own experiences I always wear a helmet when I go cycling and I have once been knocked off my bike and landed on my bum - the helmet was untouched even though I rolled over a car bonnet and onto the ground. BUT with my son it has been a different story - I made him wear a helmet from a young age and he knows no different and when he fell off his bike at age 11 he hit his head on the ground and cracked his helmet - apart from being a bit dazed he was OK - round one to the helmet.
Of my cycling friends I have 2 that have crashed seriously - one at speed into the back of a parked van and one when a rabbit ran into the front wheel and he went over his handlebars and the helmets saved them - totalled the helmets in both cases. They still ended up in hospital and one with smashed vertebrae in the neck.

From this experience all my family always wear helmets - buy the trendy ones with lots of vents and the kids love them (they do cost a lot thought).
Just thought that I'd share this with you guys.

In conclusion a helmet may or may not save you but it won't do any harm just in case.
The problems here are-does wearing a helmet allow you/your son /family/friends to cycle in a more reckless manner subconsciously or otherwise .Do motorists take less care when overtaking you etc assuming you are less vunerable than a non helmeted cyclist ?
 

Bandit

Pedelecer
Mar 13, 2009
44
0
The problems here are-does wearing a helmet allow you/your son /family/friends to cycle in a more reckless manner subconsciously or otherwise .Do motorists take less care when overtaking you etc assuming you are less vunerable than a non helmeted cyclist ?
There is certainly a balance of risk, but you will struggle to find a genuine safety argument against helmets. I don't wear one, but I probably should in front of my grandson, and I hope I would never kid myself that not wearing a helmet made me ride more safely. The most persuasive argument I heard during the time when they were debating making motor cycle helmets compulsory was that helmets create quadraplegics out of people who would otherwise have died! My father hated car seat belts because of a fear of being upside down in a crashed and burning car, with both wrists broken! But "you can't reason someone out of a position they didn't reason themselves into".:)
 
lids, kids and skids.

forgive me if you've seen this before....

Cycle helmets to be made compulsory for juniors? | Bicycle business | News by BikeBiz

Nanny seems determined to make us put our hats on,

question: would youngsters be deterred from cycling if helmets were compulsory ?
You all know that here in GodZone (NZ) helmets are compulsary. The maggots (and I mean that entirely in a loving way :) ) that zoom around my neighbourhood all seem to love their fullface downhill helmets as cool fashion accessories. The students who ride into the university in their hundreds every day can be split into utility commuters (your normal lid) and the cool kids in skate helmets.

Lids are totally normalised here, and I think the days of thinking that they put people off on their own are pretty much over. I think the generalised risk avoidance culture we build (of which compulsary helmet wearing is only a small part of, and wasting time on that one issue is pretty pointless) is more to blame to put people off cycling.

Its only mad dog libertarians that have a problem with them now, and personally, I think that's caused by the occasional head injury. (joke!)
 
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Old Timer

Esteemed Pedelecer
Dec 5, 2009
1,279
12
My wife and I always wear helmets and thats our choice but I certainly wouldn`t want a law that we must wear them. We did some adjusting of her bike at teatime and we both rode up and down the road in our shirt sleeves with no helmets to test it. That would mean we were breaking the law if it became law.
 
you can drown in 3 inches of water

My wife and I always wear helmets and thats our choice but I certainly wouldn`t want a law that we must wear them. We did some adjusting of her bike at teatime and we both rode up and down the road in our shirt sleeves with no helmets to test it. That would mean we were breaking the law if it became law.
Yep, you would. And the bobby would tut tut at you, and tell you next time wear your helmet. Once a generation went past, you'd never think of not wearing it - it just becomes normal. Just like wearing your pants. I am assuming you wear pants.
 

flecc

Member
Oct 25, 2006
49,682
27,442
I use my bike like I walk and always have done, just step on and ride off on utility trips with no preparations. I don't want to be bothered with messing around with cycle clips so I have a chainguard, and I don't want to mess around putting on a dayglo jacket, helmet or anything else special to cycling.

Since nearly half of my 64 years of cycling was before cycle helmets were even available, I'll just stick with my custom. I'm secure in the knowledge that the nation which cycles the most does the same and shares with me the lowest cycling accident injury/death rate.

Personally I leave having accidents to the helmet wearers who like to regale the world with lurid tales of how they would have died without their helmet. :rolleyes:
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lemmy

Esteemed Pedelecer
Personally I leave having accidents to the helmet wearers who like to regale the world with lurid tales of how they would have died without their helmet. :rolleyes:
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A few years ago, I paid £275 for the best cycle helmet money could buy. It was a lot of money but I was worth it.

Shortly after, I was out riding when my front wheel hit a deep pothole. The bike pitched forward and I went flying over the handlebars, hit the road and slid headlong into a lamp post.

When I came out of hospital I the full horror of the sitaution hit me. I could only thank my lucky stars. If I had been wearing the helmet that day, it would have been destroyed.
 

eTim

Esteemed Pedelecer
Nov 19, 2009
607
2
Andover, Hants.
And if you had died, you wouldn't have missed the helmet anyway :D And we would all be non the wiser.
 

Mussels

Esteemed Pedelecer
Jun 17, 2008
3,208
8
Crowborough
I agree that information and not legislation is the key here. From my own experiences I always wear a helmet when I go cycling and I have once been knocked off my bike and landed on my bum - the helmet was untouched even though I rolled over a car bonnet and onto the ground. BUT with my son it has been a different story - I made him wear a helmet from a young age and he knows no different and when he fell off his bike at age 11 he hit his head on the ground and cracked his helmet - apart from being a bit dazed he was OK - round one to the helmet.
Of my cycling friends I have 2 that have crashed seriously - one at speed into the back of a parked van and one when a rabbit ran into the front wheel and he went over his handlebars and the helmets saved them - totalled the helmets in both cases. They still ended up in hospital and one with smashed vertebrae in the neck.

From this experience all my family always wear helmets - buy the trendy ones with lots of vents and the kids love them (they do cost a lot thought).
Just thought that I'd share this with you guys.

In conclusion a helmet may or may not save you but it won't do any harm just in case.
You seem to contradict yourself a bit there.
I wear a helmet usually but as a kid I've gone over the handlebars like many others on here and suffered no injury, I think there is very little proof that cycle helmets save lots of lives.
I like to push the envelope a bit and I do fall off, I don't expect a helmet to save my life but wear one because I know banging my head hurts. I am much more likely to be crushed under heavy wheels and a helmet won't help with that, maybe I'd be better off wearing an exoskeleton.
 

lemmy

Esteemed Pedelecer
If there was solid evidence in favour of helmet wearing we'd be hearing it. We're not. We are getting anecdotes.

It amounts to this. If you want to wear a helmet, do so. If you do not wish to do so, don't.

Since there is no evidence to suggest that head injuries are more common among cyclists than pedestrians, f you seriously believe helmets save lives and are an authoritarian type, you should be starting by making them compulsory for people on foot, both at home and outdoors, since that is where the vast majority of head injuries are sustained.

Otherwise it suggests that it is not safety that concerns but some wish to exercise power over cyclists.