Help! Which bike for 6 mile hilly commute

[Scott clarke]

Given his level of fitness, I would recommend the Boardman hybrid and the Oxydrive kit. Saneagle has the ex Gadget Show bike now. He's not particularly fit, but he can manage 15.5 mph up some very steep hills at the same speed as me on the 48v Xiongda. Google Earth shows the hills peaking at 15%. The motor is the Bafang CST, which is the same as the BPM except that it has a spline for free-hub gears instead of the freewheel thread.

And in you opinion would the OP be able to bring the total of bike and kit within his budget? And how handy with the spanners do you need to be to be able to fit the kit? Would you say it was a straight forward thing to do or would it be best to buy the bike and send it away for fitting of the kit? I know the bike itself and its a great bike so quality won't be an issue.

 

[Deleted member 4366]

Many forum members have already fitted that kit. If you read the various threads, you can see what problems they had. The biggest problem was fitting the pedal sensor, which has now been changed for one that's dead essy to fit. For any kit, you need basic DIY skills. Most of the UK kits are now plug and play as long as you have a standard bike, but many people start with an unsuitable or difficult to convert bike. The Boardman is standard. The only adjustment you have to make is to open up the hole a bit in the pedal sensor to fit the splined crank. It took me about a minute with a Dremmel.

 

[Scott clarke]

Many forum members have already fitted that kit. If you read the various threads, you can see what problems they had. The biggest problem was fitting the pedal sensor, which has now been changed for one that's dead essy to fit. For any kit, you need basic DIY skills. Most of the UK kits are now plug and play as long as you have a standard bike, but many people start with an unsuitable or difficult to convert bike. The Boardman is standard. The only adjustment you have to make is to open up the hole a bit in the pedal sensor to fit the splined crank. It took me about a minute with a Dremmel.

Looks like the OP has a lot to think about now. Either go for a ready made or go down the build your own route. Good informative post and should be a good help to him.

 

[Deleted member 4366]

The trouble is there's too much choice now. It used to be easy.

 

[Scott clarke]

The trouble is there's too much choice now. It used to be easy.

That's very true. For us noobs it's a mine field of technical jargon and specs when all we really want is a holy Grail bike. We want it to not only only look top spec and be top spec we want it to do all things and be all things and cost peanuts. It's only after we spend months of research on Google and this forum we find that the bike we really want is either way out of budget or just doesn't exist so have to compromise and that's when it gets really difficult when you have no idea really what the specs mean so it ends up in lots and lots of questions to you guys. Thank god you lot know what your talking about or we as noobies would be finished before we start.

 

[Deleted member 4366]

If it makes it easier, they all work pretty well. It's only if you're very heavy or have other specific requirements that you have to search out the right bike. I've ridden literally hundreds and I liked them all.

 

[trex]

Trex....you know what you have stated is rubbish,I thought we had educated you away from such unqualified statements.
..

Let's try a little qualification about the BPM motor and its hill climbing ability.

The first chart is a BPM motor fitted to a 26" wheel with 20A controller and 15AH battery - like the woosh Big Bear. The rider's weight + bike = 100 kgs.

Note the maximum speed 21.4mph and efficiency 78% at nil gradient.




The next graph is of the same configuration but I've increased the gradient to 8%. The maximum speed is now 11.9mph and efficiency 35% -littlerally halved.


The next graph is of the same configuration but I have increased the gradient to 12%. The maximum speed is now 6.9mph and efficiency 28%



These graphs are made with the motor simulation tool at http://www.ebikes.ca

at 12% gradient, 72% of the input energy is turned to heat, cooking your BPM motor.

A crank drive with the same power (the woosh Krieger) will keep the efficiency high when climbing hills.

 

[Deleted member 4366]

The BPM in that simulation is the wrong one. That's the 328 rpm (code 10), which is for 20" wheels. No wonder it's running inefficiently. I thought you would have spotted that.

 

[RobF]

at 12% gradient, 72% of the input energy is turned to heat, cooking your BPM motor.
.

That's not very reassuring.

I did heat the front hub motor on my Brompton Nano more than I wanted to on one occasion.

No ill effects I could determine.

I used to check the motor case of my Bosch bikes occasionally, but gave up because I could never detect any significant warming.

 

[Deleted member 4366]

That's not very reassuring.

Luckily, it's not very true. Trex has got a bit mixed up again.

 

[Commuter1]

Thanks all, great advice!, I will check out the hill gradient later if it tells me, to be honest I'm not bothered if it's slightly illegal, has anyone ever been pulled up on an electric Bike? I want to get there in no more than 20 minutes, might be pushing it, the petrol scooters are edging ahead at the moment!.

 

[RobF]

Averaging 18mph in hilly conditions is going to be impossible on a legal ebike, and hard work on a 'slightly illegal' one.

Most of us on here are cyclists who like the assistance to add to the cycling fun.

If you are only interested in a bike as a commuting tool, then a petrol moped would be the best bet.

One advantage of an ebike is you can go where a push bike can go.

This can make a difference to some journeys, but if your route will be the same on either form of transport, a moped will be much faster, better in grotty weather, and always allow you to arrive free of sweat.

 

[Croxden]

I used to check the motor case of my Bosch bikes occasionally, but gave up because I could never detect any significant warming.

Never noticed any warming on mine either but looking on the diagnostic print-out I see the 'max. Pack temperature in lifetime' is 44.88oC.

Doesn't give the motor temperature.

 

[selrahc1992]

Thanks all, great advice!, I will check out the hill gradient later if it tells me, to be honest I'm not bothered if it's slightly illegal, has anyone ever been pulled up on an electric Bike? I want to get there in no more than 20 minutes, might be pushing it, the petrol scooters are edging ahead at the moment!.

IMHO legality isn't the major problem, I've built a BMP 500w that runs at 2.5kw with hobbyking lipos and a s12sh controller from BMS battery,it will do 15mph up almost any hill and total cost was less than £500. The major problem is that it is a moped and needs moped shocks and disc brakes and tyres,and I I seldom use it at 2.5 kw,partly because plod will notice and partly because its overkill,I enjoy 5 minutes more in bed as much as the next person but if I did that every morning I'd arrive completely frazzled. An ordinary pedelec and 5 minute longer commute really isok

 

[trex]

The BPM in that simulation is the wrong one. That's the 328 rpm (code 10), which is for 20" wheels. No wonder it's running inefficiently. I thought you would have spotted that.

No, I did not see that - how did you spot that's a code 10?
the Big Bear has code 13 but I don't think the result would have been much different, may be plus half a degree in gradient.
The CD Krieger runs on the same Big Bear controller and battery retains its high efficiency, above 70% at up to 12%-13%, therefore is a better choice for steep hills.

 

[Kudoscycles]

Thanks all, great advice!, I will check out the hill gradient later if it tells me, to be honest I'm not bothered if it's slightly illegal, has anyone ever been pulled up on an electric Bike? I want to get there in no more than 20 minutes, might be pushing it, the petrol scooters are edging ahead at the moment!.

I did a road show based on the Manifold Trail in the Derbyshire Dales,a delightful part of England. Whilst the Trail along the valley is a gentle incline (an old railway line) the roads up the valley sides are awesome gradients,many forum members were at that event and know the area well.
Unfortunately we didn't have a Kudos BPM motored bike or a KTM Panasonic hub bike at that time,the choice was between SWX motored hub bikes and Bosch Generation 1. Crank drives. The technology has changed a lot since that event,probably time we did it again,it was good fun based at the tea rooms in the middle of the Manifold Trail.
I suggest that the OP tries a KTM Panasonic hub bike over the type of terrain he intends,I know the price is higher than he wishes to spend but it will prove the idea-if it doesn't work with that bike then it won't work with any other legal e-bike,go buy your motorbike.
As far as legality is concerned there are no grey areas,it is either legal or illegal you cannot have slightly illegal. As we have all discussed before, the chance of being pulled by the police is very low,the risk is having an accident and hurting yourself or someone else,this subject has also been flogged to death on this forum.
So if you are going illegal you might as well be 'hung for a sheep as a lamb',maybe one of those 800 watt scooters would do the job.....they don't seem so readily marketed at the moment,have the police or trading standards clamped down on them?
KudosDave

 

[trex]

Loughborough is not far.
Go try some Impulse Kalkhoffs at 50cycles.

 

[Croxden]

I did a road show based on the Manifold Trail in the Derbyshire Dales,a delightful part of England. Whilst the Trail along the valley is a gentle incline (an old railway line) the roads up the valley sides are awesome gradients,many forum members were at that event and know the area well.
Unfortunately we didn't have a Kudos BPM motored bike or a KTM Panasonic hub bike at that time,the choice was between SWX motored hub bikes and Bosch Generation 1. Crank drives. The technology has changed a lot since that event,probably time we did it again,it was good fun based at the tea rooms in the middle of the Manifold Trail.
I suggest that the OP tries a KTM Panasonic hub bike over the type of terrain he intends,I know the price is higher than he wishes to spend but it will prove the idea-if it doesn't work with that bike then it won't work with any other legal e-bike,go buy your motorbike.
As far as legality is concerned there are no grey areas,it is either legal or illegal you cannot have slightly illegal. As we have all discussed before, the chance of being pulled by the police is very low,the risk is having an accident and hurting yourself or someone else,this subject has also been flogged to death on this forum.
So if you are going illegal you might as well be 'hung for a sheep as a lamb',maybe one of those 800 watt scooters would do the job.....they don't seem so readily marketed at the moment,have the police or trading standards clamped down on them?
KudosDave

My first real test of ebikes were at your show, at the time I preferred the KTM Macina Bold. I completely changed my mind about the Bosch motored bikes because of that hill, previously I didn't think they measured up compared to the hub motors I rode.

Testing in the environment it will be ridden is most important, whilst not buying from Dave, I owe him a lot for his show that day.

 

[rippedupno1]

Hi Commuter1,
As you mentioned that you weren't concerned about " slight illegality " i thought i would suggest this , eBay item no 181551942498 . I bought this a year ago and whilst i realise that it is above your budget i made an offer of under £1200 and it was accepted . I have now done 750 miles ( only use it at the weekend ) and it has performed faultlessly. It will easily cope with your requirements
I did this ride yesterday

Using pas setting 7 of 9 and only used a few dabs of throttle, I could have gone way faster if I had used the throttle more .i used less than half the 11.6 battery. For the money i paid this has been a great bike, comfortable, well equipped. 750 miles of trouble free riding.
If you are ok with riding a bike that is illegal i can recommend this bike. if you have any questions please feel free to pm me.
Cheers Gaz.

 

[Kudoscycles]

Croxden.....I think I remember you at the event,bright yellow cycling top if I remember correctly. You were the person who made me stop and think about crank drive,in particular the Bosch motor. Correct me if I am wrong but you were not impressed in the way the Bosch performed on a hill?
Later in the day I tried that same Macina Bold up the hill,it was necessary to think ahead on gear changes or you entered a reverse loop....by that I mean you realised the need to change down,but the change down was so delayed that you needed to change down again as soon as the change was completed....with experience you think ahead,change down lower than necessary to avoid further changes. Another forum member Artstu also tried that bike and after bought a Macina Bold,interesting his experiences after purchase?
The purpose of our road shows was to introduce newbies to the e-bike concept and give converts a chance to try in a real environment,if we sold bikes afterwards that was a bonus.
At this time I am very happy with the performance of my BPM motored bikes,the motor is well proven,not expensive and does not have the complexity associated with crank drive but the technology moves on and maybe one of the new crank drive systems will become the logical choice.
My Kudos Rapide bike is proving the seller in our London dealers,it combines the hill climbing abilities realised by the Tornado/Typhoon with a frame/tyre/accessory combination needed in a true commuter bike.
KudosDave