Help with electrics please

[AndyOfTheSouth]

Hi folks

Despite my earlier resolution to send the kit back to the shop for them to fit it, I am trying to do it myself. Unfortunately, it doesn't work. I have connected up the cables correctly - or so it seems - I have checked this with the shop. I know that power is getting through because the throttle lights up.

I presume that there is a loose connection. Is going to Maplin and buying some new connectors the right course of action? What would an expert do?

Thanks as ever

 

[AndyOfTheSouth]

Well, I went to Maplin, bought some new connectors and ..... well, nothing really. It still doesn't work. I did also buy a multimeter, but I am not sure I know what to do with it !

 

[Dynamic Position]

Hi folks

Despite my earlier resolution to send the kit back to the shop for them to fit it, I am trying to do it myself. Unfortunately, it doesn't work. I have connected up the cables correctly - or so it seems - I have checked this with the shop. I know that power is getting through because the throttle lights up.

I presume that there is a loose connection. Is going to Maplin and buying some new connectors the right course of action? What would an expert do?

Thanks as ever

Andy,

Can you post a copy of the wiring diagram?

Did the white connector with 5 wires come pre-wired and is it keyed (can it only be inserted one way)?

 

[AndyOfTheSouth]

Thanks for this. Unfortunately, I don't have a wiring diagram.

The white connectors could only fit together one way. I have now cut the wires and removed both pairs of connectors (ie both the white pair of five wires and the black pair of three) and replaced them with individual connectors. And still it doesn't work.

There is a single wire which goes straight from one of the power lines and illuminates the throttle to show that the power is switched on, which it is.

 

[Dynamic Position]

Thanks for this. Unfortunately, I don't have a wiring diagram.

The white connectors could only fit together one way. I have now cut the wires and removed both pairs of connectors and replaced them with individual connectors. And still it doesn't work.

There is a single wire which goes straight from one of the power lines and illuminates the throttle to show that the power is switched on, which it is.

Can you provide a description of what is connected at the end of each wire?
There must be at least two wires connected to the throttle since it illuminates, (+ve) Supply and (-ve) Return.

Can you identify these for me on the photograph provided?

Can access to any/all of the conductors be made at the wires at the opposite end from the connectors?

 

[flecc]

I understand from a previous thread post that your motor is a Tongxin sold as the Sparticle, but it's not the three wire one we are most used to.

Your photos show all the wiring codes correct and I doubt a connector problem is the cause. Wrong colour codes are common in Chinese production, but miswiring for that reason usually leaves some motor noise or attempts to run which you aren't getting.

I think it's most likely a fault, possibly the controller since Tongxin have had a fair amount of trouble with those. Therefore I think it's best to seek the supplier's help since it's under warranty.
.

 

[AndyOfTheSouth]

Hi Dynamic

The upper wires in the photo come from the throttle to the controller. The yellow/yellow green wire is the 'signal' wire that I mentioned. It goes straight from one of the power lines out of the battery to the throttle. I presume it makes a circuit with one or more of the other three wires.

Could you expand/explain your last sentence, please? I don't quite understand what you mean.

Thanks for your help.

 

[AndyOfTheSouth]

Just seen your post as well, Flecc. Take your point about the controller. I'd hoped it might be a connection problem since the motor worked at one point when I was pushing connectors together. But I suppose that could have been a coincidence or perhaps jolting a connection within the controller.

It is a real nuisance that the shop is a distance away, albeit in a place which I go to quite often - also that it is closed a couple of days a week. I am reconciling myself to another trip there soon.

 

[flecc]

If it worked at one point the wiring will be correct Andy, pointing to a fault occurring since then. These things are always a nuisance, I once had a 320 mile round trip to a supplier to swap a failed new motor, but it's best back in the hands of the supplier.

Will you be able to put the original connectors back on?
.

 

[Dynamic Position]

Hi Dynamic

The upper wires in the photo come from the throttle to the controller. The yellow/yellow green wire is the 'signal' wire that I mentioned. It goes straight from one of the power lines out of the battery to the throttle. I presume it makes a circuit with one or more of the other three wires.

Could you expand/explain your last sentence, please? I don't quite understand what you mean.

Thanks for your help.

"Can access to any/all of the conductors be made at the wires at the opposite end from the connectors?"

I was just trying to assess whether it was possible to make contact with the copper wires (without having to damage the insulation). If so you could have checked their continuity from one end to another to eliminate an open circuit.

Can I assume that the battery is charged?

Can you unplug everything except for the top two connectors and see if there is any change? Does the throttle still illuminate?

 

[Tiberius]

It sounds like there is more to it than a connector problem.

In the photo, it looks like you have the following:
3 motor phase wires (blue, yellow, green)
5 way Hall sensor cable (white plug with ground, power and 3 sensor wires)
Throttle connector (3 way connector with ground, power, and throttle signal)

That leaves the yellow / yellow-green cable.

Sometimes there is a wire that works as an enable or cut-off, that can be controlled by a brake lever, for instance. But if this is going between the motor and controller it looks more like a ground wire.

Can you show us where these cable go, and also how the battery is connected?

Other points to note:
If the battery is flat, the controller may shut down.
Sometimes the motor phase wires need connecting differently - ie., not colour to colour but some other combination.

Nick

 

[AndyOfTheSouth]

Thank you for these various suggestions, which are much appreciated.

To answer some of the questions. (This is because I don't know how to answer the others, not because I don't want to!)

No, can't put the original connectors back on - at least one was damaged when taking them off.

The battery is fully charged and nearly new. The controller has been removed from the battery many times - is it the sort of thing which could have been shut down in some way and need a reset?

You will see from the new photo that some of the wires have no role - brake levers no longer fitted and pedelec sensor (I presume - I didn't have one in the first place).

The kit originally worked and the problem was with the front forks. I took everything off, and it failed to work after this, though it did work on one reassembly.

Thanks again - have uploaded the new photograph

 

[AndyOfTheSouth]

Have attached a labelled version, though I am sure you'd know which was which anyway.

Thanks

 

[Tiberius]

So that yellow cable is a connection from the battery positive to the throttle?
Does it drive an indicator to show the battery level?

How is the master on/off switching done?

Nick

 

[AndyOfTheSouth]

Hi Nick

Yes to the first two questions. The on/off is a key turn at the base on which the battery is supported.

Andrew

 

[AndyOfTheSouth]

Have added a picture of the base and switch. Hope this helps.

 

[Tiberius]

OK, its all a bit clearer now.

Are there any other enable/disable functions?
I've seen controllers with an enable wire.

If the brake switches are not used, are the connections left in the correct open circuit or closed circuit condition?

Another thought: if you don't have a pedal sensor but do have a connection for it, then how is that function overridden to put it in throttle mode.

What are the symptoms? If its completely dead then can you check the voltages on the throttle and Hall sensor supply?

If it twitches but doesn't rotate it could be motor phase wires incorrect, or a Hall sensor gone.

Nick

 

[AndyOfTheSouth]

Don't know about an enable wire.

Throttle cables left as they are in the photo.

The symptom is nothing at all happening at the motor, just the throttle light tantalisingly on.

When I spoke to TETS on the phone, I checked that I was connecting the wires correctly. I was (this was when the original connectors were still in place.) At one point, the motor worked and I assumed that the problem was solved eg I hadn't pushed the connectors in firmly enough.

Since then, nothing but the light. Hence my guess - false it seems - that the problem was a loose connection within a connector.

Have attached more photos for identification.

Thanks again for your interest!

 

[AndyOfTheSouth]

Just seen your question on the pedelec. I don't know about that. I did wonder whether the unused wires should be connected in some way, but the chap at TETS didn't say so. I don't remember doing anything with them on the occasion when the motor sprang into life.

 

[Tiberius]

Ok Andy,

You've got three general classes of problem to check for:

Fault in the motor. Generally this doesn't leave it completely dead; it will twitch or run roughly. Try turning it backwards to see what happens.

Fault in the controller. Not much you can do to about this; it either goes or doesn't go. But it should generate 5 V or 12 V to run the throttle and the Hall sensors and you can check that with a meter. You can also check the throttle signal with a meter. It should vary over 1 V to 4 V as you turn the throttle

Connection/configuration problem. This includes all the extra wires going into the controller. My guess is that some of them have to have the right connections to enable the controller.

Nick