KT-LCD1 to KT-LCD3

Hightechpete

Pedelecer
Jan 20, 2018
84
27
67
west Wales
I assumed that a controller was basically an inert collection of 'off the shelf' electronic components, but after browsing on ES, they talk about 'flashing' controllers with bespoke programming, it's a pity d8veh is no longer participating, he could probably throw some light on the subject.

There's some weird sh*t happening with my set up as well.
I wanted to see if my Cyclotricity controller would provide throttle only on the Yose power motor, as it does with the Cyclotricity motor, so I swapped the motor leads.
It didn't work, but guess what, the Cyclotricity motor no longer works on throttle only with exactly the set up as it had peviously !.

I can only assume that the act of connecting the LCD3 and PAS to the Cyclotricity setup has somehow changed the software in its controller, I don't even know if this is possible, but I can't see any other explanation.

I'm happy enough with the new set up, but I want to understand what's going on. An email to KT and a new thread on ES is imminent.
Stick with it, the LCD3 is very sophisticated, and must surely have at least the functionality of the lesser LCD1.

Pete.
 

Nealh

Esteemed Pedelecer
Aug 7, 2014
7,494
2,855
56
West Sx RH
Controller and lcd need to be matched, in all appearance Cyclotricity I believe have a custom oem option with different firmware/programming set up which is only compatible with their lcd1 and their controller for their kit which enables a dual powered system.
Any KT lcd will work with said controller however without the dual wattage compatibility.

I have KT lcd1,2 &3 none have P6 option.
 

Tryker

Finding my (electric) wheels
Oct 26, 2015
7
1
61
I assumed that a controller was basically an inert collection of 'off the shelf' electronic components, but after browsing on ES, they talk about 'flashing' controllers with bespoke programming, it's a pity d8veh is no longer participating, he could probably throw some light on the subject.

There's some weird sh*t happening with my set up as well.
I wanted to see if my Cyclotricity controller would provide throttle only on the Yose power motor, as it does with the Cyclotricity motor, so I swapped the motor leads.
It didn't work, but guess what, the Cyclotricity motor no longer works on throttle only with exactly the set up as it had peviously !.

I can only assume that the act of connecting the LCD3 and PAS to the Cyclotricity setup has somehow changed the software in its controller, I don't even know if this is possible, but I can't see any other explanation.

I'm happy enough with the new set up, but I want to understand what's going on. An email to KT and a new thread on ES is imminent.
Stick with it, the LCD3 is very sophisticated, and must surely have at least the functionality of the lesser LCD1.

Pete.
I don't think it's possible to change the program stored on the controller microchip just by re-plugging things. The parameters which control things may have changed though. I think you should check P4 parameter it should be 0 (for throttle to work without pedalling: zero startup) and this parameter is common to both the LCD1 and LCD3 panels for all controllers.
 

Hightechpete

Pedelecer
Jan 20, 2018
84
27
67
west Wales
The parameters which control things may have changed though. I think you should check P4 parameter it should be 0 (for throttle to work without pedalling: zero startup)
Yes, I've done that and it works perfectly with the lcd plugged in, but when I disconnect the lcd and pas and return it to the original setup (with blanking plug connected) I get no response from the throttle.
I've checked and double checked all connections, it's frustrating, I'll try again tomorrow. I won't let it beat me.
Pete.
 

Nealh

Esteemed Pedelecer
Aug 7, 2014
7,494
2,855
56
West Sx RH
Check the throttles operation with a meter.
At the connector you should see 4 -5v between red 5v & black gnd.
Next probe black and signal (colour white ?), about 1v should be seen. Operate throttle with probes still connected to see 4v. If nothing then throttle hall is no good or a fault in wire loom so try a continuity check on the wiring.
 

Hightechpete

Pedelecer
Jan 20, 2018
84
27
67
west Wales
Thanks for the info Neal, colours and continuity checks are difficult with Julet cables. BTW is it pronounced Julay or Julette?.

The throttle works the motor from zero start with lcd3 connected, P4 =0, so I'm assuming the throttle and connections are good, tried a spare new throttle with the same result. I've also checked the bridging on the end plug, and that checks out. Maybe there's something else I've overlooked.

I was hoping to use the Yose power motor on throttle only by using one or other controller, at least until I get around to finding an elegant solution to the hollowtech/pas.

It's not a huge problem, I can swap the lcd3 from one bike to another in the meantime.
I'll keep at it until I find the answer, maybe I'll be able to contribute something useful back to the board.

Pete.
 

harrys

Pedelecer
Dec 1, 2016
143
11
68
Chicago, USA
A little off topic, but I tested a shorting plug in place of the LCD3 on the PSWpower 11A/22A KT-sinewave controller. I mounted an external speedometer that takes the exact wheel circumference. It seemed to default to a level that felt like PAS2 or PAS3. Easy pedaling got my 40 pound bike (500W motor) up to 14 mph on 36V (fully charged at 42). Under throttle only, I hit 22 mph.

I added the shorting plug to my emergency kit. I doubt the display will ever go bad, but who knows.
 

Hightechpete

Pedelecer
Jan 20, 2018
84
27
67
west Wales
Thanks for the link awol, because I intend using the road bike unpowered 90% of the time (only using a little throttle when things get tough), I want to keep the triple chainset. In my mind, I've placed the sensor on the bottom bracket, and fixed the magnets directly to the 'granny ring'.

Harrys, was the shorting plug the same configuration as mine :-



Were you able to use the throttle with it installed?
 

harrys

Pedelecer
Dec 1, 2016
143
11
68
Chicago, USA
I have a flat JST plug, and it came with the controller, but it's the same idea with 1-5 and 2-3.

Yes, both throttle and PAS were active.
 

awol

Esteemed Pedelecer
Sep 4, 2013
1,122
340
Thanks for the link awol, because I intend using the road bike unpowered 90% of the time (only using a little throttle when things get tough), I want to keep the triple chainset. In my mind, I've placed the sensor on the bottom bracket, and fixed the magnets directly to the 'granny ring'.

Harrys, was the shorting plug the same configuration as mine :-



Were you able to use the throttle with it installed?
It would be interesting to find out whether the only PAS level you get when you've tripped out the LCD matches the level which was previously set in the LCD3 parameter C3, then reconect the LCD3,change parameter C3 and trip out the LCD again to see if the PAS power changes with it
 

Hightechpete

Pedelecer
Jan 20, 2018
84
27
67
west Wales
I have a problem, I'm a bit of a perfectionist (it's a hard cross to bear at times), and sometimes don't take advice because it doesn't fit with what I believe.
It was like this when I thought I only needed a throttle to help when the going got tough.

I've heard many people suggest that I should have a PAS fitted, anyway, to cut a long story short, 58.8 miles covered this morning on the heavy Raleigh on PAS level 1 (mostly) with the LCD3 and PAS newly fitted, on a 11Ah battery and I'm converted.
I still have the throttle, I think it was Woosh who said it's handy when you need quick acceleration and find yourself in the wrong gear

My Ancheer mtb also has PAS, but it works differently, I assume speed control rather than what I think is called 'simulated torque control', it's ok, but doesn't feel as natural.

Thanks to everyone who posted, I'll play around with the settings (I'm Not finished with the experiments yet) as Awol suggests to see if I/we can learn something from it.
I think the Trek will soon be displaying an elegant and efficient PAS.

All we need to do now is to get Alan Lowery sorted, poor man has had his thread well and truly hijacked.

Pete.
 

Tryker

Finding my (electric) wheels
Oct 26, 2015
7
1
61
I have a problem, I'm a bit of a perfectionist (it's a hard cross to bear at times), and sometimes don't take advice because it doesn't fit with what I believe.
It was like this when I thought I only needed a throttle to help when the going got tough.

I've heard many people suggest that I should have a PAS fitted, anyway, to cut a long story short, 58.8 miles covered this morning on the heavy Raleigh on PAS level 1 (mostly) with the LCD3 and PAS newly fitted, on a 11Ah battery and I'm converted.
I still have the throttle, I think it was Woosh who said it's handy when you need quick acceleration and find yourself in the wrong gear

My Ancheer mtb also has PAS, but it works differently, I assume speed control rather than what I think is called 'simulated torque control', it's ok, but doesn't feel as natural.

Thanks to everyone who posted, I'll play around with the settings (I'm Not finished with the experiments yet) as Awol suggests to see if I/we can learn something from it.
I think the Trek will soon be displaying an elegant and efficient PAS.

All we need to do now is to get Alan Lowery sorted, poor man has had his thread well and truly hijacked.

Pete.
Hear, hear to Alan's problem as I too am interested in this, but further information for yours: my motor is on a 26" wheel and Labelled XF40 30H which is a MXUS 1000W motor. This number is followed by 250W but nowhere does it say restricted. The motor number you give I'm unable to find any reference to on the internet, I suspect it's the same motor though.
Also the shorting plug info given by Harrys is different to yours: he suggests pins 1-5 and 2-3 are linked (not 3-4 as in your diagram). Maybe, as I suggested, there is a wiring difference between the controllers and your shorting plug isn't connecting TXdata to RXdata. I suggest the only accurate way to find out is by opening the controller and belling out the multi-way plug back to the circuit board to find out which pins to connect together: your shorting plug may not be shorting the correct pins.
 

Hightechpete

Pedelecer
Jan 20, 2018
84
27
67
west Wales
Also the shorting plug info given by Harrys is different to yours: he suggests pins 1-5 and 2-3 are linked (not 3-4 as in your diagram).
I don't know what joining the Tx and Rx pins would achieve, I've discovered that if I hotwire position 1 and 5 on the socket it has exactly the same effect as using the blanking plug.
In one of D8veh's posts, he shows the connection details of all the pins of Julet connections. I can't understand why they would deviate from the standard, it would add unnecessary complication to the production process.
 

Tryker

Finding my (electric) wheels
Oct 26, 2015
7
1
61
I don't know what joining the Tx and Rx pins would achieve, I've discovered that if I hotwire position 1 and 5 on the socket it has exactly the same effect as using the blanking plug.
In one of D8veh's posts, he shows the connection details of all the pins of Julet connections. I can't understand why they would deviate from the standard, it would add unnecessary complication to the production process.
I was just pointing out a discrepancy. I have no idea if there is a standard to wiring Julet/HIGO plugs as they don't seem to be that common especially on the Chinese controllers. Different controllers provide all sorts of different connections depending on their available functions. The LCD panels also provide different functions dependent on the capability of the controller. For example the LCD1 provides walk assist when the motor is running at or less than 6kph, but a cruise control for speeds of 7kph or greater using the same button press: the controller would have to support this though.
The TX/RX data connection was suggested by D8veh in another thread, and logically this makes sense: the controller contains a computer system on a chip which has program memory and data memory in flash ROM. There is working RAM too. I would think the controller should be regarded as a computer that has to boot into its normal operating mode after switch-on and one thing it does is check for the presence of an LCD (which, I believe, also contains a computer on a chip). I suspect it may wait indefinitely if it gets no response during initialization or it may be designed to revert to a default condition after a wait period. Looping back its data connection makes sense if this is the case, to avoid any startup delay or even failure to start.

The pin 5 connection is intended for a key-switch input to lock the system, obviously easy to over-ride for those in the know who might be able to hot-wire it.
 

Nealh

Esteemed Pedelecer
Aug 7, 2014
7,494
2,855
56
West Sx RH
Julet and Higo are compatible connection wise, however pin out wise the wiring sequence differs.
 

harrys

Pedelecer
Dec 1, 2016
143
11
68
Chicago, USA
I didn't really look at the wiring diagram details, but TX to RX and B+ to Start is how the shorting plugs go.

The KT controllers may send a little query on power up and if the TX is looped back to Rx, that could tell it to enter the default no LCD mode mode.

Can't get a short plug to work with my controller that uses a SW900 LCD.
 

peter chapman

Finding my (electric) wheels
Aug 16, 2015
11
1
44
hi all, i too am in a predicament i have had a problem with the system on my cyclotricity stealth i have replaced lcd1 with an lcd3 and the problem still exists. on inspection i found the controller to be damaged by water ingress. try as i might i could not get full power from the 1000w motor with the lcd 3 and i need a new controller is there a unit compatable with the lcd and cyclotricty motor that is plug and play, a direct swap? or do i have to go back to cyclotricty and buy a new controller and lcd1? any help on this subject would be good also suggestions on the parameter settings too. my kit is kt-lcd3 dash, kt48zwsrl-xfcf01r (mxus-15-04-25-kt) controller and xf40 30h 1506 0088 motor.
 

wheeliepete

Esteemed Pedelecer
Feb 28, 2016
1,231
401
55
Devon/Dorset
Cyclotricty is the only place you will get a true plug and play replacement, but there are other sources of KT 30 amp controllers that may need some connectors changing. If you fit a replacement you will lose the 250/1000w function if that matters to you. This one will work with your LCD3 as long as your motor has hall sensors, check your motor cable has 5/6 thin wires coming from it.
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/48V-Electric-Bike-Controller-1000W-Sine-Wave-Hall-Sensor-KT-Series-12-Mosfet/264002909783?hash=item3d77ccb657:g:sLQAAOSwPeVbzuzb:rk:2:pf:0
 

peter chapman

Finding my (electric) wheels
Aug 16, 2015
11
1
44
ok thanks thats the sort or think im after i only run the bike in 1000w mode any way so not bothered in switching. looks a bit of a pain swapping connectors though. ant way to get to the 1000w power with the cyclotricity controller. does anyone have the correct parameters to set it up.
 

Advertisers