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Straylight

Esteemed Pedelecer
Jan 31, 2009
650
2
Hi Scott,

I'd like to start by saying that I think both you and Wisper produce very good products, within an increasingly competitive marketplace, with a diversity that is such to make any comparison difficult.

I would however, say that my thoughts on the Wisper range are virtually a cut-and-past job from my previous post, in that "what you see is what you get", i.e. on the face of it there are no customisable options. Though perhaps as the bulk of Wisper's range seems to stem from a single core design (the 905 frame), the aesthetic decision is clearer, i.e. you either like it or you don't, and so choose your spec more by individual model, though this is set to change with what sounds like something of a departure in the 1006.

Again colours/braking options/to suspend or not suspend/motor options (eg. is it possible to get a 906 frame with a 905 motor?) etc.

But before I get stuck in a oneupmanship contest between rival manufacturers, I'd like to say that the notion of customisation is more than a practical one in my view, it's to do with the customer taking ownership of their expensive purchase from the outset, as let's face it, it's not like buying a tin of beans. It's something that I hope you as manufacturers would want to become an integral part of people's lives, and from a business standpoint - cause them to wax lyrical to their friends about. I think an emotional attachment from the earliest possible moment is key to this kind of engagement. To you, it's just another unit in a box, to the individual customer - it's something else entirely, it's their bike.

By allowing a potential customer to play around with the options, better still having a website clever enough to reflect the cosmetic changes in real time via an updating image, they begin to take ownership of it before they've even clicked the "buy" button. It becomes something uniquely theirs.

Whereas to get them to call you personally, is a very different form of psychological entrapment, it sucks people into to a relationship with the retailer rather than the product, and the more time that is spent finalising/negotiating the spec, the more the customer feels duty bound to buy it. This is far less positive an experience in my view, as the customer, from that first call/email, has their sense of freedom to extract themselves from the deal eroded. The notion of a "quote" does something to break this, but allowing an instant, at least ballpark quote from your web-page, still puts the customer far more in the driving seat (or should that be saddle:D ).

Oh, reasons I bought my 905se City, range, speed, aesthetics, cost, control system, in no particular order, though cost was a governing factor.

Cheers,

Stray.
 
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Alex728

Esteemed Pedelecer
Dec 16, 2008
1,109
-1
Ipswich
there is one thing that puts me off panasonic bikes and its nothing to do with looks especially since the Gepida has arrived - I've seen it widely reported here that you have to pedal slower to get more assistance. As someone who is younger and got into e-biking via normal cycling I've always been used to dropping the gear lower and spinning faster - and this would be very counter-intuitive...
 

Straylight

Esteemed Pedelecer
Jan 31, 2009
650
2
I suppose the reasoning behind this is that when you hit a hill, you just change down slower, rather than anticipating the gear you need from the outset.
 

flecc

Member
Oct 25, 2006
49,645
27,406
I suppose the reasoning behind this is that when you hit a hill, you just change down slower, rather than anticipating the gear you need from the outset.
It's actually linked to the 25 kph / 15 mph assist limit, common to Japan too.

Since these drive through the gearing, the assist limit is set for top gear, so if it's to be possible to cycle above the limit while keeping the cadence within bounds, that limits the 15 mph cadence, to 65 in the Panasonic example.

However, Japanese law specifies an early start to power phasedown at 15 kph / 9.4 mph, so that means the highest cadence to give maximum power is 39 at that 9.4 mph.

The whole story is here on my website.
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Lloyd

Pedelecer
Jan 22, 2010
166
0
You really need to try a Panasonic to get an idea of what it is like. I come from a cycling background and had the same opinion. When I first rode one I got no assistance out of it as I simply rode it like my normal bikes. Slightly alter your riding style though and whoomph there it is!
 

flecc

Member
Oct 25, 2006
49,645
27,406
Fully agree Lloyd, once used to the concept and how to use it, they are far more capable than the data might suggest.
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debs515

Finding my (electric) wheels
Apr 8, 2010
6
0
Hi, I just saw this thread.

I don't really understand what the effects of this legislation are, I'm pretty new to this whole area and I'm not very technically minded so if someone could help me out that'd be great!

Is the implication that bikes with a 'throttle-only' mode would be discontinued? If so would those who already had these still be able to use them? Or is it that there would be some kind of registration/new restrictions placed on their use?

I'm rather concerned by this as I'm buying an electric bike specifically to use the throttle function (I have a health condition and can't cope with pedalling all the time) and don't want to end up with something I can't use.

Also, even if there were exemptions for 'registered disabled' there is no universal register and many of us wouldn't necessarily qualify! Surely if you consider that you need a throttle, you should be allowed to have one?
 

flecc

Member
Oct 25, 2006
49,645
27,406
The new rules will definitely be pedelec only, no independent throttle only. The intention for e-bikes is that they remain as bicycles and not a form of low powered motorcycle, which they are if they have independent throttles.

Existing e-bikes at the time the new law is implemented will be able to be used indefinitely, but only a few models have a throttle only mode now.

Throttle control bicycles can still be legal if if registered as low powered mopeds, but that means type approval, number plates, insurance etc.
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lemmy

Esteemed Pedelecer
there is one thing that puts me off panasonic bikes and its nothing to do with looks especially since the Gepida has arrived - I've seen it widely reported here that you have to pedal slower to get more assistance. As someone who is younger and got into e-biking via normal cycling I've always been used to dropping the gear lower and spinning faster - and this would be very counter-intuitive...
I ride both my normal 24 gear derailleur and Kalkhoff bikes interchangeably. Sometimes one, sometimes the other depending on my mood. I don't see the problem.

They are different but not as different as going from a bike to a car or a motorbike or driving on the left or right which most us us do without effort.

Certainly nothing to worry about.

On the politics of e-bike development, that wise old bird Harold MacMillan remarked that communism was an excellent system that didn't work and capitalism was a rotten one that did.
 

Patrick

Esteemed Pedelecer
Feb 9, 2009
303
1
Hi, I just saw this thread.

I don't really understand what the effects of this legislation are, I'm pretty new to this whole area and I'm not very technically minded so if someone could help me out that'd be great!

Is the implication that bikes with a 'throttle-only' mode would be discontinued? If so would those who already had these still be able to use them? Or is it that there would be some kind of registration/new restrictions placed on their use?

I'm rather concerned by this as I'm buying an electric bike specifically to use the throttle function (I have a health condition and can't cope with pedalling all the time) and don't want to end up with something I can't use.
The change won't be retrospective, so if you buy a bike now you will be able to continue using it.

In the future the change won't necesaraly be that big for a rider who wants to be able to take a break from the effort of pedaling, a bike could run under throttle control as long at you just keep the pedals turning by pedaling air.

Patrick
 

debs515

Finding my (electric) wheels
Apr 8, 2010
6
0
The change won't be retrospective, so if you buy a bike now you will be able to continue using it.

In the future the change won't necesaraly be that big for a rider who wants to be able to take a break from the effort of pedaling, a bike could run under throttle control as long at you just keep the pedals turning by pedaling air.

Patrick
I tried two electric bikes recently - one pedal assist, one with a throttle as well, and found the latter a much more stable ride - pedalling air was both tiring and made me feel a lot more unstable. Don't know if that's just because I'm not much of a cyclist! I guess I'd better get a move on and do my purchasing then before these new laws come in!