Last yesterday's Commons DEbate on e-bike regulations

Apr 19, 2011
211
27
Here it is:

Electrically Assisted Pedal Cycles (Amendment) Regulations 2015


The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Transport (Claire Perry): I beg to move,

That the Committee has considered the Electrically Assisted Pedal Cycles (Amendment) Regulations 2015 (S.I. 2015, No. 24).

It is a pleasure to serve under your chairmanship, Mr Turner. As you can hear, my hon. Friends and colleagues have all had a good lunch and are excited to get on with discussing the regulations.

The regulations will change how electrically assisted pedal cycles are defined, as part of the Government’s red tape challenge, which is aimed at simplifying legislation—something that we would all like. They will make a small but significant change that will unify how pedal cycles are treated in the UK and Europe, and potentially help to develop a new British export market in this important technology.

The existing regulations came into force in 1983, and set out the requirements that bicycles, tricycles and tandem bikes must meet in order to be classified as electrically assisted pedal cycles for use on the road. I am going to skip all the good stuff about driving licences, because I do not think that it is relevant, but I will say that since 1983 there have been significant improvements in technology, particularly in terms of power supply. As we know, attitudes to cycling have been transformed, particularly in this great city but also right across the country. In 2013, a new EU framework regulation on the mandatory approval of motorcycles included a classification of pedal cycles that are exempt from approval. The existing UK requirements are more restrictive than those in the EU, so it is right that we make harmonising changes that will provide a wider choice of vehicles for those who wish to buy them in the UK. As I said, that will potentially allow some exports from the UK.

Sir Peter Luff (Mid Worcestershire) (Con): Did the Minister just say that Europe is driving deregulation in this instance?

Claire Perry: I must say that this a classic case in which historically we have gold-plated EU regulation, and we would now like to scrape off the gold plate and harmonise the situation in a way that will benefit UK consumers.

Bob Stewart (Beckenham) (Con): I am thrilled by the regulations, but are we going to have cheaper electric cycles that will take fat men up hills more easily?

Column number: 4
Claire Perry: I could not possibly comment on my hon. and gallant Friend’s girth, but I recently undertook a 25-mile charity bike ride, and I had my arse whipped—I think that is the phrase—by an 86-year-old who was assisted up the hills by the technology that we are discussing. I was terribly impressed. It is important that we should all look to buy these bikes in future.

This goes on and on...

See link to read more
 
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Apr 19, 2011
211
27
Here's the good bit on twist and go...:

2.47 pm
Claire Perry: I am pleased to have the support of the shadow Minister [.....] here is one more point to respond to. The twist and go classifications will be permitted up to 15.5 mph. A vehicle under that limit will be designated as an EAPC, because it is considered to be a benefit to elderly and less able people. Any twist and go vehicle that can achieve a speed above that will be classified as a moped.
 

flecc

Member
Oct 25, 2006
52,814
30,379
Indeed James, I just added that bit to an answer I gave earlier, it's on this link

They need type approval to be permitted though.

Thanks for posting the committee report.
.
 

selrahc1992

Esteemed Pedelecer
Dec 10, 2014
559
218
Here it is:

Electrically Assisted Pedal Cycles (Amendment) Regulations 2015


The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Transport (Claire Perry): I beg to move,

That the Committee has considered the Electrically Assisted Pedal Cycles (Amendment) Regulations 2015 (S.I. 2015, No. 24).

It is a pleasure to serve under your chairmanship, Mr Turner. As you can hear, my hon. Friends and colleagues have all had a good lunch and are excited to get on with discussing the regulations.

The regulations will change how electrically assisted pedal cycles are defined, as part of the Government’s red tape challenge, which is aimed at simplifying legislation—something that we would all like. They will make a small but significant change that will unify how pedal cycles are treated in the UK and Europe, and potentially help to develop a new British export market in this important technology.

The existing regulations came into force in 1983, and set out the requirements that bicycles, tricycles and tandem bikes must meet in order to be classified as electrically assisted pedal cycles for use on the road. I am going to skip all the good stuff about driving licences, because I do not think that it is relevant, but I will say that since 1983 there have been significant improvements in technology, particularly in terms of power supply. As we know, attitudes to cycling have been transformed, particularly in this great city but also right across the country. In 2013, a new EU framework regulation on the mandatory approval of motorcycles included a classification of pedal cycles that are exempt from approval. The existing UK requirements are more restrictive than those in the EU, so it is right that we make harmonising changes that will provide a wider choice of vehicles for those who wish to buy them in the UK. As I said, that will potentially allow some exports from the UK.

Sir Peter Luff (Mid Worcestershire) (Con): Did the Minister just say that Europe is driving deregulation in this instance?

Claire Perry: I must say that this a classic case in which historically we have gold-plated EU regulation, and we would now like to scrape off the gold plate and harmonise the situation in a way that will benefit UK consumers.

Bob Stewart (Beckenham) (Con): I am thrilled by the regulations, but are we going to have cheaper electric cycles that will take fat men up hills more easily?

Column number: 4
Claire Perry: I could not possibly comment on my hon. and gallant Friend’s girth, but I recently undertook a 25-mile charity bike ride, and I had my arse whipped—I think that is the phrase—by an 86-year-old who was assisted up the hills by the technology that we are discussing. I was terribly impressed. It is important that we should all look to buy these bikes in future.

This goes on and on...

See link to read more
i think pedelec power output should be restricted on the basis of whether the bike can take Eric Pickles up a 40% hill at 15mph
 

anotherkiwi

Esteemed Pedelecer
Jan 26, 2015
7,845
5,785
The European Union
See it isn't only France which has kinky politicians... :eek:

Tony
 
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flecc

Member
Oct 25, 2006
52,814
30,379
Just for clarity, can we assume that twist and go throttles will remain legal?
If you mean on existing e-bikes, yes, the new regulation is not going to be retrospective.

Any new e-bikes bought after the new regulation is passed into law by Parliament will have to be type approved to have a full throttle.
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hoppy

Member
May 25, 2010
330
50
Here's the good bit on twist and go...:

2.47 pm
Claire Perry: I am pleased to have the support of the shadow Minister [.....] here is one more point to respond to. The twist and go classifications will be permitted up to 15.5 mph. A vehicle under that limit will be designated as an EAPC, because it is considered to be a benefit to elderly and less able people. Any twist and go vehicle that can achieve a speed above that will be classified as a moped.
It's very clear from this that the government's intention is to retain twist and go for EAPC's. What is not yet clear is how they can be type approved as a category that does not need type approval! They are clearly not to be classed as mopeds. I think it may need an adjustment to the type approval exemptions to include EAPC's with twist and go.
 
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hoppy

Member
May 25, 2010
330
50
It's very clear from this that the government's intention is to retain twist and go for EAPC's. What is not yet clear is how they can be type approved as a category that does not need type approval! They are clearly not to be classed as mopeds. I think it may need an adjustment to the type approval exemptions to include EAPC's with twist and go.
Latest news is that type approval for twist and go EAPC's will be required from January 2016,BUT into a new category of BICYCLES, with all the advantages that brings.Let's hope some suppliers, like Woosh perhaps, will sell such bikes.
 
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Apr 19, 2011
211
27
On 24th Feb the House of Lords considered UK e-bike regulations:

Lord Campbell-Savours (Lab): My Lords, while this might not be the greatest issue confronting Parliament, it is actually quite an important little change…

Link to minutes here:
 

flecc

Member
Oct 25, 2006
52,814
30,379
Let's hope some suppliers, like Woosh perhaps, will sell such bikes.
It's not at all clear this will happen Hoppy. The cost per model of type approval is high and will have to be added to the purchase prices. A supplier will need to be sure of selling plenty of each model for it to happen at an acceptable cost.

A separate class of bicycle may not be necessary. The current L1e-A class is for bicycle based low powered mopeds limited to 15.5 mph. Althougn permitted with up to 1000 watts, they do not have to be registered and number plated.

All that may be needed is an exemption as an EAPC for one at or under 250 watts, thus avoiding the insurance requirement.
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flecc

Member
Oct 25, 2006
52,814
30,379
Let's hope some suppliers, like Woosh perhaps, will sell such bikes.
Further information Hoppy, Freego-Wisper have said their e-bikes will be type approved to have full throttles, adding an estimated £15 per bike which they hope to absorb. However they forecast that smaller suppliers may find the costs prohibitive as I thought, since the cost spread over smaller model runs will be too much per bike.
.
 
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hoppy

Member
May 25, 2010
330
50
Further information Hoppy, Freego-Wisper have said their e-bikes will be type approved to have full throttles, adding an estimated £15 per bike which they hope to absorb. However they forecast that smaller suppliers may find the costs prohibitive as I thought, since the cost spread over smaller model runs will be too much per bike.
.
Excellent news! Thanks, Tony. Well done FWG. I quite fancy one of those 1000 watt bikes too if not needing registration etc. Should be great on hills! Seems like we are finally getting somewhere with the legal situation. Great!
 

flecc

Member
Oct 25, 2006
52,814
30,379
So far class L1e-A 1000 watt bikes haven't been produced, perhaps because the position with regard to permitted helmets and insurance are unclear. Higher powers have only appeared in the S class Speed e-bikes which allow up to 500 watts where they are permitted, not here in the UK sadly.
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Apr 19, 2011
211
27
... so the Lords have finished debating e-bikes (and have all left the building for e-bike shops to try one?), but I think the Commons debate is still ongoing...

I'm a long term supporter of UK adopting EU regs but the devil's in the detail. For example anyone can change tyre type/size/make/model on CE marked manual bike, but if tyre type/size/make/model are changed on an CE marked e-bike it makes it non-compliant!

If any of you are in touch with your MP please email them ASAP and get them to ask this parliamentary question:


To ask the Secretary of State for Transport, in reference to the Electrically Assisted Pedal Cycles (Amendment) Regulations 2015 and the transposition of Article 2(h) of EU Regulation 168/2013 (a) whether the make and model of the tyre of the bike forms part of the whole product's compliance with the new regulation and (b) what assessment he has made of the impact of that on i) consumers and ii) retailers..
 
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flecc

Member
Oct 25, 2006
52,814
30,379
I've asked Gavin Barwell by email. He's Croydon Central conservative MP who has the ear of government through following their line on key issues.
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Apr 19, 2011
211
27
Here's how I found out Flecc, maybe this will help your contact understand the problem in context: email to Shadow Sec of Trans...

Hello Lucy,

Please if you can pass this email to those due to discuss e-bikes in the Lords tomorrow.


[......] yesterday in Germany technicians were told that they must not change/replace any e-bike tyre with anything other than the factory fitted make and model. That’s any e-bike, not just this particular manufacturer's.


It seems the make and model of tyre forms part of the whole product's compliance with EU e-bike regs, and that any deviation will render it non-compliant.


Nine out of ten of our customers were non cyclists before buying an e-bike; they have no interest in bikes, bike shops, spokes, or epicyclic-crank-pin-sprockets, so take no pleasure in up-ending their bike to show off their road-side skills to fix a puncture. They like hassle-free electrocycling; they welcome our offer to fit puncture proof tyres to their e-bike.


…so if the UK adopts EU e-bike regs, we and all other e-bike retailers would be liable to unlimited business and personal damages in the event of a claim following an accident involving an e-bike that they fitted puncture proof tyres to.


I understand that this does not apply to manual bikes - owners and bike repair shops can fit any bell, or whistle, or tyre they wish. It seems the reason for this is that in the EU e-bikes are being treated as machines, not bikes, despite their power and speed being limited so as to make an e-bike rider slower than most manual bike riders.


Can you please help the UK avoid such silly unintended consequences?


With kind regards,


James FitzGerald

MD Low Emission Vehicles Ltd.
 
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