LED on Kalkoff Pro Connect 2008

[Mr. NRG]

Hello!

I'm from Germany, so please excuse the mistakes I probably will make.

I own a Pro Connect, which was built in 2008.

It does not have a LED-Light at the front. But I want to install a B&M Cyo LED-lamp.
The producer of the bike told me, that it is not possible to do so, and when I install a LED-lamp it would directly "break".

Is anyone out there, who has installed a B&M LED-light on a Pro Connect, which was actually sold with a halogen-light?

Thanks!

 

[Onslow]

I don't know but just a curious question....why do you want to change? If it were me I would add an extra LED to the bike. I'm sure if the manufacturer says it won't work it is safe to assume it won't work.

 

[flecc]

I'm afraid that is true, the LED light will not be a substitute.

The reason is the method that's used to supply the present headlight bulb. Instead of the voltage of the battery being dropped electronically in the usual way, the full battery voltage is supplied in a series of extremely rapid on/off pulses, the duration of the on pulses equating to an average of 6 volts over time.

Because the duration of each high voltage pulse is so short the bulb filament isn't damaged and the filament acts like an absorber, the heating rise time and fall time being too slow to allow it to behave in any other way than if it were on a steady 6 volt supply.

By contrast an LED will respond much more quickly and the full battery voltage pulses can damage it.
.

 

[Mr. NRG]

1. I think that a LED battery light like the Ixon IQ is also not too bad, but you always have to keep it with you and it is much more comfortable to have a LED-light installed on the bike. on the other hand I could also use the battery light on my race bike....

2. flecc, when I understand what you try to explain, it will not work. Right? It looks like the explanation Kalkhoff gave to me...

3. Are there people from 50cycles in this forum, which could answer the question? Maybe they have some experiences....

 

[flecc]

2. flecc, when I understand what you try to explain, it will not work. Right? It looks like the explanation Kalkhoff gave to me...

Yes, it definitely won't work. Putting the halogen lamp voltage into an oscilloscope shows what is going on, it's exactly as I've described.

I'm sure 50cycles would confirm what Kalkhoff have said.

The method that Kalkhoff have used might seem to be on grounds of cheapness, but in fact it's the most economical and efficient way to supply a lamp with current, since there are no voltage conversion losses.

If you aren't sure of what I've explained, please say and I will explain it differently.
.

 

[Grumpy1]

Why not just call 50cycles in the morning? But I wouldn't bother. The manufacturer has told you it won't work, even Flec, the fountain of all electric bike knowledge, has told you it won't work. It won't work.

 

[Mr. NRG]

Ok, ok, I really do understand what you try to tell me !

Today (before a signed up here) I just tried another thing...I called Busch & Müller, the company which produces the lamps I'm taking about. They told me, that I just have to check which voltage comes to my halogen-lamp with a multimeter. When this voltage than would be under 7.6V I could use any of their LED-lamps.....
...that's really confusing, because they say something different....

There is one question left: When I check the voltage with a multimeter and its not over 7.5V, is it possible to "harm" a LED-light? When the answer is no, I could just test if the Cyo works with my local bikedealer. The worst thing which than can happen is, that there would be no light....Am I right?

From my point of view in the UK there a many people having the Pro Connect 2008. Are they all satisfied with this bad halogen-light or do they all have an extra battery light?

 

[tillson]

Over on the 50 Cycles Forum, Mark from 50C has said that he has fitted an Agattu LED rear light to a ProC. I am currently waiting for a light unit to retro-fit to my bike as I am having problems with the halogen bulbs failing at regular intervals.

The link is here

 

[joab]

Led

If you want led lights have a look here:
Renaissance Bicycle Company - DC-DC Ebike Lighting System

 

[flecc]

There is one question left: When I check the voltage with a multimeter and its not over 7.5V, is it possible to "harm" a LED-light? When the answer is no, I could just test if the Cyo works with my local bikedealer. The worst thing which than can happen is, that there would be no light....Am I right?

A multimeter will damp the input and can therefore produce the average voltage reading that the halogen lamp runs on. However, that will mask the high voltage spikes within that supply current, and it's those that can damage an LED. So the answer is yes, it could still damage the LED despite the voltage reading correctly, and trying it at your dealers could instantly destroy the lamp.

Whether it will or nor depends on any circuit components in the LED lamp and whether they will damp the input enough, and of course I can't predict those. One member did try an LED lamp on a Pro Connect some while ago and destroyed the LED lamp, so he was unlucky. With another type he might have had better luck, but using an LED on this pulsed high voltage supply is far from ideal and could result in failure at any time.
.

 

[Mussels]

If you were intent on LEDs then you could construct a smoothing circuit to turn the fluctuating voltage into a clean DC supply. It wouldn't be particularly difficult but you would need to know the wave pattern of what is there now to design a suitable circuit. I got out of this stuff about 10 years ago so it's all a bit fuzzy to me now, but if you are determined and nice there's a lot of knowledge on here that can help.

 

[Mr. NRG]

I really have to say THANK YOU!

Now you all explained it to me in a very comprehensive manner!

I will now buy an additional battery light!

 

[rog_london]

Yes, it definitely won't work. Putting the halogen lamp voltage into an oscilloscope shows what is going on, it's exactly as I've described.

I'm sure 50cycles would confirm what Kalkhoff have said.

The method that Kalkhoff have used might seem to be on grounds of cheapness, but in fact it's the most economical and efficient way to supply a lamp with current, since there are no voltage conversion losses.

If you aren't sure of what I've explained, please say and I will explain it differently.
.

That's interesting. Not an original idea either - in a previous life in the fruit-machine business it was the standard method used to drive 6 volt lamps off a 55 volt DC supply. The mark-space ratio was one in sixteen, and it was an easy way to drive LOTS of 6 volt bulbs with little in the way of wiring losses.

It's still done in exactly the same way.

Rog.

 

[rog_london]

If you were intent on LEDs then you could construct a smoothing circuit to turn the fluctuating voltage into a clean DC supply. It wouldn't be particularly difficult but you would need to know the wave pattern of what is there now to design a suitable circuit. I got out of this stuff about 10 years ago so it's all a bit fuzzy to me now, but if you are determined and nice there's a lot of knowledge on here that can help.

It wouldn't be very efficient though. The halogen lamp would require a much higher current than any LED. You'd need a hefty (and wasteful) series resistor to keep the current down so you don't burn out the LED or LED array - etc.

LEDs don't mind being pulsed well above their ratings, but generally there is no advantage to this as they don't put out much more light - they just generate heat.

The point is, that the Kalkhoff circuit really does not lend itself to running anything other than the correct halogen lamp.

Rog.

 

[wotwozere]

Hi

My light bulb bust before and i sellotape a torch to my handlebar so i stayed legal. it worked for 5 days of booze runs.

thx

Bob

 

[Mr. NRG]

Can someone explain the last post to me, please? I really do not understand what our fellow wanted to say....I even checked words in a dictionary but it makes no sense to me...

 

[tillson]

Can someone explain the last post to me, please? I really do not understand what our fellow wanted to say....I even checked words in a dictionary but it makes no sense to me...

Unfortunately the person who made the post only does so for the purpose of disrupting the forum. Therefore his posts never will make sense.

 

[Mr. NRG]

Ah, ok....

 

[Onslow]

Unfortunately the person who made the post only does so for the purpose of disrupting the forum. Therefore his posts never will make sense.

That's a little bit harsh. I can see exactly what he is trying to say, and it makes sense to me. "His front light also broke, but he attatched a flashlight to his handlebars in order for him to legally ride his bicycle at night. He used this for 5 days to get him to his local pub/off licence"

Jesus it's not rocket science.

 

[flecc]

That's a little bit harsh. I can see exactly what he is trying to say, and it makes sense to me. "His front light also broke, but he attatched a flashlight to his handlebars in order for him to legally ride his bicycle at night. He used this for 5 days to get him to his local pub/off licence"

Jesus it's not rocket science.

In the context of all that users posts Onslow, it's far from harsh. For example wotwozere has just yesterday referred to a member as a "thicko", hardly the best of manners.

And in any case, what relevance has attaching a torch as a temporary lamp got to the inquiry about the current supply suitability when replacing a halogen lamp with an LED one. Hardly helpful.

As for the rocket science comment, as you know, the inquirer is a German national trying to understand a reply framed in very poor English, so some understanding is called for.
.