Legality & electric bikes. Does speed matter!

[Caph]

I suppose my main point was, if you (one) argue(s) that it is ok to ignore the speed law on e-bikes because you think it is silly, why is it not ok to ignore the mobile law if you think that is silly?

I doubt that the people who pull out of turnings or drive up the motorway one handed while talking on their mobiles think it is dangerous at all. They see it as a law designed for fools - and they do not consider themselves fools.

Ditto the speed law on e-bikes.

I would disagree with your ditto simile. One law outlaws you from travelling at the speed that a normal cyclist on a road bike would achieve anyway. The other outlaws you from driving a one tonne vehicle at speeds of up to 70mph with only one arm and substantially compromised awareness.

One causes no more harm than is possible cycling without a motor, the other is a wanton disregard for the life of other road users and pedestrians.

To stretch your simile further and illustrate my point, surely riding a motorised bike 1mph faster than the legal limit is no worse than breaking in to a house and slaughtering a whole family while they sleep if you consider both to be silly?

The point is that the perceived silliness is not at all the point (there are nutters out there who render the concept of percieved silliness an impossible target). The point is the measurable danger to society. Riding an ebike at 20mph is no more dangerous than riding a high end road bike at 20mph. Talking on a mobile while driving is reckless.

If you want to debate the merits of abiding by laws versus the benefit to society of doing so then that is another thing entirely. But judging laws based on subjective perception of worth is pointless since every person will have a different perception.

 

[lemmy]

One law outlaws you from travelling at the speed that a normal cyclist on a road bike would achieve anyway

There is no speed limit on an electric bike any more than any other bike. Within the road's speed limit, you can go as fast as you wish.

That's why I never understand these arguments and the 'up the power' brigade. If you want to go faster, pedal more or buy a motor bike. (The new small Hondas are cheaper both to run and buy than electric bikes anyway).

If the powered speed of electric bikes were upped to 20mph, the same people who wanted that will want 25mph and then 30mph.

We have a nice little privilege over other powered vehicles at the moment and I for one am content with that. If people want to soup up their e-bikes, who am I to stop them? All I ask is that they keep their wishes to themselves so that we don't all get tarred with the same rather childish and immature brush. Motor bikes really aren't that frightening and they do go faster

 

[morphix]

There is no speed limit on an electric bike any more than any other bike. Within the road's speed limit, you can go as fast as you wish.

That's why I never understand these arguments and the 'up the power' brigade. If you want to go faster, pedal more or buy a motor bike. (The new small Hondas are cheaper both to run and buy than electric bikes anyway).

If the powered speed of electric bikes were upped to 20mph, the same people who wanted that will want 25mph and then 30mph.

We have a nice little privilege over other powered vehicles at the moment and I for one am content with that. If people want to soup up their e-bikes, who am I to stop them? All I ask is that they keep their wishes to themselves so that we don't all get tarred with the same rather childish and immature brush. Motor bikes really aren't that frightening and they do go faster

I absolutely agree Lemmy. I think we have the best of both worlds and the speed limit without pedaling is just right and puts the pedelecs still in the bicycle category. As you said, there is no reason you can't go faster using effort..I frequently hit 22mph and faster on the flat by pedaling with full power, I don't see the speed restriction of 15mph much of an issue at all if I wanted to go faster for some reason I'd get an electric moped and license.

 

[johnc461165]

Well if the worst thing I have ever done in my life is to ride my illegal Aurora on the roads then I can live with that.

 

[Kudoscycles]

The big problem is not the riding of the illegal bike...I doubt whether the police have the manpower or inclination to take the trouble to investigate whether your bike is illegal or otherwise and any fine is likely to be minimal....the problem is if you have an accident which hurts someone,especially a third party....imagine the scenario that you ride into a child and cause injury,that bike will be taken to part by experts,if it is proven illegal,you will be cannon fodder to the prosecuting counsel and any form of protection insurance will be void. It only needs to happen once,from that point on all bikes will have to be EN15194 certified,which will eliminate all of the smaller companies from the market and homebuilt bikes will be a definite off-road use only...if you don't believe that will happen just look at the restrictions placed on the kit car industry over the last 10 years. I understand the argument that a non electric bike could also injure a child but if that bike were legal it would be covered by most home insurance policies.
WHATEVER YOU DO-KEEP IT LEGAL !!
Dave
KudosCycles

 

[morphix]

The big problem is not the riding of the illegal bike...I doubt whether the police have the manpower or inclination to take the trouble to investigate whether your bike is illegal or otherwise and any fine is likely to be minimal....the problem is if you have an accident which hurts someone,especially a third party....imagine the scenario that you ride into a child and cause injury,that bike will be taken to part by experts,if it is proven illegal,you will be cannon fodder to the prosecuting counsel and any form of protection insurance will be void. It only needs to happen once,from that point on all bikes will have to be EN15194 certified,which will eliminate all of the smaller companies from the market and homebuilt bikes will be a definite off-road use only...if you don't believe that will happen just look at the restrictions placed on the kit car industry over the last 10 years. I understand the argument that a non electric bike could also injure a child but if that bike were legal it would be covered by most home insurance policies.
WHATEVER YOU DO-KEEP IT LEGAL !!
Dave
KudosCycles

That's so true and something many of us haven't even considered, the insurance and injury aspect if you should cause an accident. Another reason why the 15.5mph limit makes more sense, you're far less likely to find yourself in such a situation and the bike will be a lot easier to control. If you want to do 30mph on some 500w motor do it off-road!

 

[Deleted member 4366]

I agree about the liability aspects but I think that someone would have to have been killed for that extreme countermeasure - still possible, but not very likely except in the case of a very fast and heavy bike. So, I think that provided people don't go nuts, the industry and small suppiers should be OK. Having said that, I have see some guys on Youtube in the UK riding ridiculously fast electric bikes with huge batteries and controllers on the road.

 

[Mussels]

How common are ebikes where you guys live?

I've seen a few around recently. I've spoken to the owners of a Freego Eagle, a Khalkoff and a Wisper 906 and seen a couple of Powabykes parked up. Plus the police have Wispers round here with their dedicated cycle teams, I bet they can spot a dodgy bike easily.

 

[Deleted member 4366]

I've seen a few around recently. I've spoken to the owners of a Freego Eagle, a Khalkoff and a Wisper 906 and seen a couple of Powabykes parked up. Plus the police have Wispers round here with their dedicated cycle teams, I bet they can spot a dodgy bike easily.

I wonder if the policemen have soldered their shunts!

 

[yselmike]

my 19km commute is out of town all bar 3km, mostly on bike lanes thats why I wanted a fast bike
a Flyer s street when I hit town i slow down to the speed of everybody else though the power lets me
overtake easily,if I only travelled in town I would have got one with thick tyres on 26¨ wheels.
racing around will get me into trouble and the dozy idiots I see here in Amsterdam I am suprised that there are not a lot more problems.

 

[Haku]

How common are ebikes where you guys live?

They're very common where I live, there's 3 in my shed!

Actualy it was a very rare sighting when I saw my first ebike in my area (not being ridden by me), now I've seen quite a few, one time I was following this guy along a shortcut path and it struck me he was doing the same kind of speed I usually do when tackling the sharp corners & slalolm for slowing bikes, without looking like he was putting much effort into it, then I spotted the motor on the front wheel.

Another time I saw a woman going the wrong way along the one way road loop in my town, slight incline and full throttle just zooming past.

A few weeks back I locked my bike up in town next to a 'normal' pushbike that had a small petrol engine attached to the front wheel which powered it through friction to the tyre! When I came back it had gone but a couple of days later I pulled up to the bike rack at Tesco at the same time the petrol engine bike guy did, he must've been in his 60s or later and we has a nice chat about it, I asked him if he'd been stopped by the police - not yet after using it for quite a long time.

Speed measuring "guns" used at slow speeds on variable surfaces such as a cyclist are notoriously inaccurate anyway, so measuring cyclist speed is problematic, any result between 16 and 20 mph easily challenged.

It's this kind of thing which makes the 10mph speed limit on the Bournemouth promenade completely bloody ridiculous, not to mention they're enforcing it on vehicles that aren't required by law to have a speedometer: Cyclist speed camera launched on 10mph seafront prom - Telegraph

Since getting my first ebike the only two times I've been stopped by the police was because I was riding without lights on a pavement and I crossed a major road, normally they don't care that I cycle on the pavements day or night.
I do use a lot of the designated paths for bicycles but there's not many of them and they're not always easy to access because the council care more about road access than people on foot/bikes (and even then they don't seem to care about the ever increasing potholes - yet another reason I find pavements safer).

 

[Scottyf]

Police haven't even bothered to stop me going through red lights. I thought i'm going to see if they do when they was right behind me.

I think sometimes it also helps if it looks like your taking cycling a little more seriously with the proper kit. I used to get more looks when I was wearing normal clothes and monkeying about or camo shorts and gonig down the canal paths.
As soon as I'm in my all weather cycling gear and commuting no one cares what I'm doing.

 

[Wisper Bikes]

I've seen a few around recently. I've spoken to the owners of a Freego Eagle, a Khalkoff and a Wisper 906 and seen a couple of Powabykes parked up. Plus the police have Wispers round here with their dedicated cycle teams, I bet they can spot a dodgy bike easily.

Hi Andrew, you are of course absolutely on the ball, East Sussex Police have just ordered another 10 Wispers and they are 100% up to speed on what is legal and what is not!

All the best

David

 

[carpetbagger]

Don't sell them to Lancashire police ! I passed our community bobby going up a nearby steep hill and as much as he tried,he just couldn't keep up to me.....shame

 

[Wisper Bikes]

They would need one of those old Norton 750's to catch you on one of those Mick!

All the best

David