Help! Lishui controller and LCD vs KT controller and LCD

tunznath

Pedelecer
Sep 20, 2019
100
12
KT's use different % current in each of the five levels.
1, 13%.
2, 20%.
3, 33%.
4, 50%.
5 . 100%.
So Nealh , the kt PAS system is current controlled and the Lishui is speed controlled?, i have been reading around and radpower have speed controlled PAS as do some sondors, anyone confirm this?
 

vfr400

Esteemed Pedelecer
Jun 12, 2011
6,021
2,204
Basildon
The only way to tell is by recognising the KT LCDs. Luckily, most choose the LCD3. If it has one, you have the option of current control. Some LiShui controllers have rudimentary current control, like on the Oxygen bikes. It's also on the NVM bikes, but they lock you out of it for some reason. It might be on some others. You'd have to test every bike to know which ones.
 
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Nealh

Esteemed Pedelecer
Aug 7, 2014
11,746
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My Woosh Big Bear kit with Luishi controller had current control, though the current % is certainly higher then the KT ones. Tony at Woosh has said on here many times they programme the current % starting at 40% for PAS1.
I can only assume Lishui's may have both options and might be down to how they are programmed at the factory. The KT's have the option in the 'P' settings to select either though 'CC' is default.
On Friday on my 65 mile ride I saw about 136w in PAS1, current set for 23a/48v which isn't far off 13%, 136w is only seen at slower speed esp on inclines once the speed increases in to above double figures the watts decrease.
 
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Nealh

Esteemed Pedelecer
Aug 7, 2014
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My Woosh Big Bear kit with Luishi controller had current control, though the current % is certainly higher then the KT ones. Tony at Woosh has said on here many times they programme the current % starting at 40% for PAS1.

I can only assume Lishui's may have both options and might be down to how they are programmed at the factory. The KT's have the option in the 'P' settings to select either though 'CC' is default.

On Friday on my 65 mile ride I saw about 136w in PAS1, current set for 23a/48v which isn't far off 13%, 136w is only seen at slower speed esp on inclines once the speed increases in to above double figures the watts decrease.
 

Nealh

Esteemed Pedelecer
Aug 7, 2014
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So Nealh , the kt PAS system is current controlled and the Lishui is speed controlled?, i have been reading around and radpower have speed controlled PAS as do some sondors, anyone confirm this?
There are so many controllers used by Oem bikes it isn't always possible to know the brand used, as VFR mentioned the KT LCD3 is quite distinguishable and is the best of the lot from the KT stable.
 

Sturmey

Pedelecer
Jan 26, 2018
175
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Ireland
..........On Friday on my 65 mile ride I saw about 136w in PAS1, current set for 23a/48v which isn't far off 13%, 136w is only seen at slower speed esp on inclines once the speed increases in to above double figures the watts decrease.
By the way, there is a huge 163 page discussion on KT controllers on endless sphere which included a way of hacking and reprogramming power levels etc.

PS. I find the gap between PAS 4 (50%) and PAS 5 (100%) a bit too wide. I would like to see PAS4 at 80% and pro rata adjustments of PAS 1-3.
 
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Nealh

Esteemed Pedelecer
Aug 7, 2014
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I'm happy with the KT for my use PAS3, 4 or 5, I very rarely use them.
Tbh I have looked at the ES thread and it isn't my cup of tea to mess with.

For the first 40 miles my average Wh usage was < 8.5wh per mile.
Under 10wh per mile I feel I'm getting good exercise without busting a blood vessel.
 
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tunznath

Pedelecer
Sep 20, 2019
100
12
Finally retrofitted a KT controller and LCD3 onto the "Lishui" system - works well will give more info if people want
 
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Scorpio

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Apr 13, 2020
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@tunznath ^ Yes please, I saw your update on the "Yosepoewer" thread - I'm very interested how you think the systems compare on the lower power settings.
 

tunznath

Pedelecer
Sep 20, 2019
100
12
Ok will take the bicycle up the steepish track behind the house and conciously think about feel of the ride and report back
 
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Yak

Finding my (electric) wheels
Mar 20, 2020
22
8
I’ve got the Lishui speed based controller and I really like it. I just leave it is PAS 2 always, don’t need to think. I prefer to be doing all the work until the hill gets steep enough and my speed drops below about 16kmh? Is that what you guys are finding? As I get slower, more power goes in, until I’m in first and the motor is giving it’s all. I like it that way...

Then as I realise I’ve got juice left and I’m getting tired I may go crazy and pop it in PAS 3 to help on the long slow inclines when my speed may drop below 22-23kmh ish....

Took me a loooong time to figure out PAS 3 didn’t give more power, just cuts out at a higher speed (d’oh). Pretty sure the lag when you change from PAS 2 to 1 or whichever, is mostly gravity....

Run like this I’ve done 112km with 1200m climbing and still had 2 from 5 bars left on the battery indicator (36.4v on the screen).

Anyway, I’m 2,600km along since we came out of lockdown in May. Lovin’ it.
 

vfr400

Esteemed Pedelecer
Jun 12, 2011
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I’ve got the Lishui speed based controller and I really like it. I just leave it is PAS 2 always, don’t need to think. I prefer to be doing all the work until the hill gets steep enough and my speed drops below about 16kmh? Is that what you guys are finding? As I get slower, more power goes in, until I’m in first and the motor is giving it’s all. I like it that way...

Then as I realise I’ve got juice left and I’m getting tired I may go crazy and pop it in PAS 3 to help on the long slow inclines when my speed may drop below 22-23kmh ish....

Took me a loooong time to figure out PAS 3 didn’t give more power, just cuts out at a higher speed (d’oh). Pretty sure the lag when you change from PAS 2 to 1 or whichever, is mostly gravity....

Run like this I’ve done 112km with 1200m climbing and still had 2 from 5 bars left on the battery indicator (36.4v on the screen).

Anyway, I’m 2,600km along since we came out of lockdown in May. Lovin’ it.
Did you try the KT controller? Anecdotally , most people prefer it.

I used controllers like yours for about 4 years because that's all there was then, but since I first tried current control 6 years ago, there's no chance of me going back. With the KT, I find it much easier to control the bike at low speed, and it's much easier to be able to pedal as hard as I want. If I hadn't discovered KT controllers, I'd probably be riding a crank-drive bike with a Bosch or similar motor, but I haven't found anything yet that beats my bike as it as the moment.

My best range from one charge of my 400wh battery was 129 miles (206km). What does that mean other than that I can pedal quite hard when I want to?
 
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Yak

Finding my (electric) wheels
Mar 20, 2020
22
8
Did you try the KT controller? Anecdotally , most people prefer it.

I used controllers like yours for about 4 years because that's all there was then, but since I first tried current control 6 years ago, there's no chance of me going back. With the KT, I find it much easier to control the bike at low speed, and it's much easier to be able to pedal as hard as I want. If I hadn't discovered KT controllers, I'd probably be riding a crank-drive bike with a Bosch or similar motor, but I haven't found anything yet that beats my bike.

My best range from one charge of my 400wh battery was 129 miles (206km). What does that mean other than that I can pedal quite hard when I want to?
Yup that would be a lot of pedaling! This is my first ebike experience, guess I was just putting down how the Lishui was working for me...l only have PAS connected, and I kind of like not needing to touch the screen during a ride. No doubt this is until I shunt a car in a queue for lack of control...but so far it just suits my riding.
 

Dali

Pedelecer
Sep 21, 2020
49
5
I’ve got the Lishui speed based controller and I really like it. I just leave it is PAS 2 always, don’t need to think. I prefer to be doing all the work until the hill gets steep enough and my speed drops below about 16kmh? Is that what you guys are finding? As I get slower, more power goes in, until I’m in first and the motor is giving it’s all. I like it that way...
Sounds like that level would be good for me too as I have just ordered a Yose kit to get me up over the hills where I live (and would like it on max power for this) to get to the more pleasurable flat ground where I won't need assist at all. So I am a little confused now; when you say the motor is giving its all when you are going slow up hill is that 100% of the level 2 55% setting (according to the level table mentioned on page 1 of this thread) or 100% of the maximum the controller is capable of (or limited to)? If the latter, is the table wrong?

I was only going to use the throttle as I just wanted to get up the hills with max assist, but was disappointed to recently learn it is limited to 6km/h. Shame this can't be changed with this display.
 
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scott gaza

Pedelecer
Oct 20, 2018
156
21
scone
Hi Dali, you will be fine the throttle can be set to 6km/h but that is not the default which is maximum. If you leave the pas on 2 or 3 you would get max assist going up hill as the speed dropped and it would assist getting up to cruise speed.
 

Dali

Pedelecer
Sep 21, 2020
49
5
Ah, thank you Scott that's good to know. I think I understand now - the quoted percentages for each level of assist are percentage of max speed, so level one will take you to 40% of 15.5mph (or whatever the max speed is of the yose kit) and level five will try and take you to 15.5mph and all the modes will work harder the further you are away from that speed.

Does the display have any other tricks, do you know, like setting the amps to the motor or is the kit already set to its maximum that the controller is capable of?

I am sorry if this seams obvious or I am misunderstanding something but I am a bit new to all this and need the motor to work hard on my 6'6" 17 stone frame up the hills.
 

vfr400

Esteemed Pedelecer
Jun 12, 2011
6,021
2,204
Basildon
IMHO, 13 amps is nowhere near enough current at 36v to get a 17st rider up a steep hill using a Yosepower motor. the steepest short hill that it could manage when pedalling at 150w is 13% at a speed of around 6 mph.

A reasonably fit person could probably manage 250w for a short time, which would give a speed of 8.4 mph. That's about as slow as you can go without running the risk of over-heating the motor.

At 17st, I'd recommend at least 18 amps. 22amps and a motor that could sustain it would be better.
 

Dali

Pedelecer
Sep 21, 2020
49
5
Oh well that's what I bought so it will have to do (with a 36v 10ah bottle battery - delivery next week). The listing says max 18A for the controller so hopefully there is a way to make it go to this and meet vfr400's min recommendation. I am okay to help up the hill, I just want it to be easy!

38417
 
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