Looking for more torque

[hillclimber]

I like my 2010 Kalkhoff Tasman very much but in order to undertake longer (15 mile plus)
routes round my very hilly area I would like some more torque. I have been unable to find out what the output in terms of Newtons my present bike has but there appear to be a number of machines claiming 40NM. Is 40 NM adequate (16 stone, 59 next birthday) or
should I be looking for something more potent. Any suggestions welcome but comfort is
a higher priority than speed as the local lanes are becoming more lunar every day.

 

[Deleted member 4366]

The new generation of Ebikes have much better climbing ability than yours. In standard form, any of these should be a vast improvement:
BH Emotion Neo
Any Bosch-motored bike
Any bike with 36v Panasonic
Any bike with Kalkhoff impulse
Ezee Torque or Forza with the large motor
Kudos Ariba and Tornado

There's not a lot between them. The crank drives might be better for very steep hills, but the hub-motors are better for medium steep hills.

If you do a software update on a Kalkhoff Impulse, you have the possibility of converting it to a beast, which will trounce the rest - a good man told me.

 

[flecc]

You haven't said where you are located, but if you can get to this event, the hill there is an ideal one on which to test the ability of the various e-bikes present.

 

[Cyclezee]

The new generation of Ebikes have much better climbing ability than yours. In standard form, any of these should be a vast improvement:
BH Emotion Neo
Any Bosch-motored bike
Any bike with 36v Panasonic
Any bike with Kalkhoff impulse
Ezee Torque or Forza with the large motor
Kudos Ariba and Tornado

There's not a lot between them. The crank drives might be better for very steep hills, but the hub-motors are better for medium steep hills.

If you do a software update on a Kalkhoff Impulse, you have the possibility of converting it to a beast, which will trounce the rest - a good man told me.

If I may just point out, several eZee models share the same powerful motor as the Torq and Forza RWD, the Sprint, Street, Expedir and eZee Mk2 conversion kit have the same motor.

 

[Waspy]

If I may just point out, several eZee models share the same powerful motor as the Torq and Forza RWD, the Sprint, Street, Expedir and eZee Mk2 conversion kit have the same motor.

Hi,

These specs are from your own website:

eZee Torq Mk3

Motor: V2 eZee 250 watts Brushless motor with planetary reduction gears, Al alloy ADC 5 hub

....................................

eZee Sprint Primo

Motor: V1 eZee 250 watts BLDC front hub

....................................

Is this not the case?

Love your bikes by the way.

 

[hillclimber]

Thank you d8veh. That is most helpful and indeed hopeful.

One bike that fits your criteria is the Sparta B2 with Bosch crank drive. Anyone have a view on them?

Thank you for your comment on the Kalkhoff Impulse. I imagine the same principle would apply to any
motor on which the output has been restricted?

Finally I have seen some bikes eg the BH Emotion Nitro equipped with 500W motors. I assume these have been restricted and are therefore still legal. I am not interested in breaking the world speed record but if such a model offered increased torque I might be interested.

 

[hillclimber]

Thanks, great one. I lived near Cheltenham so very easy to get to the event in Bristol all other things being equal.

 

[Deleted member 4366]

Thank you d8veh. That is most helpful and indeed hopeful.

One bike that fits your criteria is the Sparta B2 with Bosch crank drive. Anyone have a view on them?

Thank you for your comment on the Kalkhoff Impulse. I imagine the same principle would apply to any
motor on which the output has been restricted?

Finally I have seen some bikes eg the BH Emotion Nitro equipped with 500W motors. I assume these have been restricted and are therefore still legal. I am not interested in breaking the world speed record but if such a model offered increased torque I might be interested.

The Nitro has a 48v battery, which will make the motor spin faster to give higher speed for the USA market. It might not have much more torque than the UK ones. I think that you''ll find the UK ones OK for your needs. Hopefully you can try one at the Bristol show. The power delivery of the Neos is a bit more user-friendly than the Bosch. The Bosch is better if you're a healthy and fit cyclist that likes to pedal. Nearly all the Bosch bikes have the same drive system - same power and torque, so you choose the one that has the style, riding position and components that you like.

 

[flecc]

Hi,

These specs are from your own website:

eZee Torq Mk3

Motor: V2 eZee 250 watts Brushless motor with planetary reduction gears, Al alloy ADC 5 hub

....................................

eZee Sprint Primo

Motor: V1 eZee 250 watts BLDC front hub

....................................

Is this not the case?

Love your bikes by the way.

Yes, but didn't list the Primo version of the Sprint as having the V2 motor, it's the low cost Sprint version for the tight budget market.

 

[hillclimber]

Again, most helpful, thanks.

Should I go down the software update route, is this something the dealer can do?

 

[Cyclezee]

Yes, but didn't list the Primo version of the Sprint as having the V2 motor, it's the low cost Sprint version for the tight budget market.

Thank you for pointing that out Tony, Waspy was almost correct.
The Sprint 8 models have the eZee V2 motor and the lower spec Sprint Primo has the V1 motor.

 

[Jonah]

Again, most helpful, thanks.

Should I go down the software update route, is this something the dealer can do?

I think that it is only the new Impulse system that can be updated and configured for increased assist using the official manufacturers service units. Is your bike an Impulse motor or the original Panasonic motor?

 

[hillclimber]

I have been doing a bit of research based on your list. Having never considered a Kudos before I now learn
that the Kudos Ibex (expected July) yields 60Nm via crank drive for £1225 inc. VAT. Wow! What's the catch
d8?

 

[Deleted member 4366]

I have been doing a bit of research based on your list. Having never considered a Kudos before I now learn
that the Kudos Ibex (expected July) yields 60Nm via crank drive for £1225 inc. VAT. Wow! What's the catch
d8?

Good question! There's always a catch. To get 60NM at the back wheel, you'll be in first gear going very slowly. You'll see the Tornado and Arriba annihilate the Ibex up Park Street at next month's Bristol show.

 

[hillclimber]

KudosDave, where are you on this?

 

[Kudoscycles]

KudosDave, where are you on this?

the 23 June is my birthday and I will be floating around the Greek Isles drinking too much Mythos beer.....sorry I am being cheeky,2 of my guys will be at the Bristol event....the differences between the Arriba,Tornado and Ibex are quite frankly what you want out of these bikes.
The Arriba with its torque sensor replicates with assistance your own riding style but it does need you to put some effort in to get a lot more effort out. I like it a lot it suits my riding,it will go up steep hills provided you put some effort in and maintain more than 4mph up the hill.This bike suits a general rider who would like some exercise but needs help on steep hills but you cannot be lazy.
The Tornado is a speed sensor it gives raw power with no attempt to measure rider input or cadence,whatever you set on the PAS control is what you get. Provided you can maintain more than 4mph up the hill you start to get into speed at which the motor starts to offer max power.This bike would suit a lazy rider but one who has some power in his legs to maintain the speed.
The Ibex is a speed sensor crank drive,it does not have the sophistication of the speed/torque/cadence sensor of the Bosch system but it will give maximum torque irrelevant to the speed at which you climb the hill-ie it allows you to ride up with full power very slowly.This bike would suit a rider who is struggling with leg power and is prepared to ride up a hill slowly.
It is interesting that the BPM motors have the torque available lower in the speed range which gives the false impression that they are more powerful than say the 8 fun motor (which really needs 8mph to reach the motor torque efficiency speed). This lower speed we refered to as the TOPS system but in reality is available in all BPM-CST motors.
I suspect we will use the Tornado bike at Bristol because it gives raw torque off the line without any consideration of rider input power,the guy riding the bike is a keen amateur cyclist so he should be able to maintain the speed up the hill to reveal max operating torque of the BPM motor.
Does that help?
KudosDave

 

[hillclimber]

It sure does - a real belt and braces job. I look forward to trying them all. My only
concern is that I might be a bit tall for the 46cm frame ....

 

[Kudoscycles]

It sure does - a real belt and braces job. I look forward to trying them all. My only
concern is that I might be a bit tall for the 46cm frame ....

The geometry of these bikes is such that the short seat post is not really relevant,the location of the handlebars plus a very long seat post accomodates a wide range of rider heights. However a big guy above 6 ft may feel the bike feels small under him,despite being able to find a comfortable riding height.
KudosDave

 

[billadie]

"the guy riding the bike is a keen amateur cyclist so he should be able to maintain the speed up the hill to reveal max operating torque of the BPM motor."

Not trying to sneak an undercover Lycra in by any chance?

 

[hillclimber]

I'm 6'1'' ..... Just have to suck it and see.