Looking for the impossible combination of features vs price

[arcascomp]

Hi,

First question and I will start with an apology for starting yet another "what bike" type of thread! (and for the long rambling post)

I have commuted to work by bike since 1991 and have always worked in and around Edinburgh city which, although generally hilly in places, can often be fairly level, but a head wind often features in my commutes. I usually use an old rigid mountain bike with slick tyres (studded ones just now for the winter months), having given up on a road bike recently as I just can't deal with the impacts on the wrists every time I hit a bump nor the crouched position in traffic.

I have been popping into the forum for some years now as I've often felt like an electric bike would make life generally easier and now especially as my current workplace isn't easily accessible by bus and so I bike pretty much every day no matter what the weather. I feel the biggest gain would be for the occasional days when I just don't feel enthused by cycling against the wind or for the occasions when I would like to get to the far end without needing a shower. I also would like to be able to pop out to the nearest shop at lunchtime (1.5 miles away) or even nip to city centre once in a while (8 miles away), again without needing to shower when I get back.

My commute distance is a modest 3.5-4 miles each way and is mostly flat, even heading to the city centre would be generally levelish. I cycle on a mix of road, tarmac path and canal path that can be a bit muddy but not that bad.

So needless to say I have some specific wants in a bike and I have a fixed budget (this is the kicker) of £1000 from the cycle to work scheme although I could probably sneak £100 above this if I really have to. My list is as follows:

1) Must be light enough to cycle without power, I'm not a weight weeny and I doubt my existing rig is particularly light. Lack of motor friction also comes into this, probably as much.

2) Preferably hub geared as the winter road/canal path muck destroys 'normal' gears and chains no matter how well oiled the are (I don't have the time to clean them each night)

3) 26" wheel size - I have quite new Marathon Winters and they cost enough, I wouldn't want to replace them for a year or two!

4) Disc/hub brakes - V brakes are fine but again due to the winter muck, V brakes wear out rims

5) Must be capable of taking rear rack and full mudguards.

So all that for under a grand, I said it was impossible! I saw a Giant Twist that has a Nexus hub gear and doesn't seem too bad (bit above budget) but have no idea how good these are.

I also wondered about getting an Alien or Sunlova kit and buying a suitable 'normal' bike to create the ideal mix, slightly worried about ending up with a frankenbike that is terrible at all things.

Has anyone any good suggestions for complete bikes that at least get as close to my list as possible for the money that are worth further investigation or experience with the kit build approach?

Thanks for bearing with me!

Craig.

 

[eddieo]

http://www.pedelecs.co.uk/forum/electric-bicycles/2507-giant-twist-express-3.html

 

[flecc]

Your journey is very easy and most e-bikes will cope ok, but please avoid that Giant Twist. That model has no freewheel in the motor since it is a regenerative type, so it has very real drag when unpowered. With no long steep hills you wouldn't benefit from the regeneration either.

The free running bikes I know are in the higher price brackets, so I'll leave owners of lower cost low-drag models to advise further.
.

 

[JuicyBike]

Hi Craig
Most of your criteria can be met with a sub-£1000 bike, except the Hub gears. I do not know of any current model that can provide that one spec. for less than your budget.
I'm hoping someone else will be able to solve that issue for you.

Otherwise, BEBA membership is a criteria I would add, showing a willingness on the maker / dealer / importer to abide by an excellent code of practice.

Note, however, that not all current members have yet been added to the BEBA site. We've been waiting since our approval last June...

Good luck with your search!

 

[arcascomp]

Thanks Flecc for that word of warning! I wasn't sure if this was yet another Giant twist of similar construction as previous models or if they were trying a newer design - seems best to steer clear.

You are right that almost any ebike will get me there and back, mostly I intend to continue to do it under my own motive power too. I think a Cytronex bike is probably more what I would want, sadly they are just out of reach just now.

I looked into the Juicy bikes as all that I have heard is good, but with the motor on the rear, I couldn't even plan to swap out the gears to an Alfine/Nexus/SRam hub system later in life if I wanted to. Please correct me if I am wrong in this regard!

Any ideas on building up a kit instead? Is the TongXin motor available/better than the 8fun one?

 

[eddieo]

Now that we have put the horrible Giant away........whats is wrong with dérailleurs?

 

[NRG]

Deraillieurs are the work of the devil Eddy

The new 2011 Raleigh Velo city and trek(?) are meant to be very free running front wheel hub powered bikes according to AtoB magazine so maybe worth seeking a test ride later this year when they are released. Price somewhere around the £1K mark....

The Tongxin is not as strong at the 8Fun / Bafang power wise and also seems to be quite fragile in comparison but it is a free running motor.

 

[Streethawk]

Hub geared bike with a front wheel kit? The old Subway 8 would've been ideal, but Carrera dont seem to do it anymore. Even then, you might struggle for the money, you'd need to find a hub-geared bike around £500, and there arent so many of those.

 

[Streethawk]

I should add that looking after the chain shouldnt be hard, a good blast of WD40 at the end of each ride will rid you of salt/muck/water, put the bike away for the night then a quick spray of a good long lasting spray can lube like Finish Line Cross Country. No need to clean the whole bike. Regular squirt of WD40 to the derraileurs helps stop them seizing in winter too.

I see it as a 30 second job which i can do in the near pitch dark outside my shed before i put the bike to bed.

 

[arcascomp]

Seems the buying will be done at the end of March so I will not get to wait for later releases sadly (but I get a new toy sooner though )

NRG, thanks for the comment about the two motors, I thought that might be the case, but wasn't too sure.

Streethawk, you're right the Carrera Subway 8 would have been a perfect base.

Eddio, I prefer the hub gears as I know that in the two years this C2W scheme will cover I will kill a dérailleur set no matter how carefully I intend to squirt them after each commute. The main issue is the road salt and grit that gets in the oil and becomes a grand grinding paste. I do realise I might have to stick with these and maybe upgrade to Alfine or such like later in life.

Maybe I need to buy a kit and buy frame, etc.. to get the required spec within my budget - that way I can reuse a couple of bits from my existing collection of bikes (Must make space in shed for new toy, must make space....... ).

Craig.

 

[flecc]

Thanks Flecc for that word of warning! I wasn't sure if this was yet another Giant twist of similar construction as previous models or if they were trying a newer design - seems best to steer clear.

Unfortunately Giant keep using the Twist name for many models that are very different, from the 2001 Panasonic powered one through to the latest Freedom and Express models.

Since the price of the one you were looking at was low, I assumed it was a Twist 1 or 2 model which are as I described them, but it's important to give any additional name attached when mentioning these bikes.

The latest Freedom and Express models have lost the regeneration and have gained a motor freewheel, so are much better and faster than before, but sadly those names are still stupidly prefixed Twist. I wouldn't think of them as especially free running, but they now compare with average hub motor bikes and are good quality build. Their torque sensor is excellent too.

Here's a link to Giant's site and the Freedom model.
.

 

[Caph]

Eddio, I prefer the hub gears as I know that in the two years this C2W scheme will cover I will kill a dérailleur set no matter how carefully I intend to squirt them after each commute. The main issue is the road salt and grit that gets in the oil and becomes a grand grinding paste. I do realise I might have to stick with these and maybe upgrade to Alfine or such like later in life.

Craig, don't forget that the best gearset you're looking at on an ebike at this price point is the upper budget range Shimano Alivio. I kid you not when I tell you I've even seen a brand new £1650 ebike bike with a Shimano Tourney gearset so if you get Alivio you should really consider yourself lucky!

My point is that a brand new front and rear Alivio mech along with an 8 speed SRAM Powerlink chain will set you back about £45 from Chain Reaction Cycles at the moment. At that price you could almost consider it an annual consumable although I'd be very surprised if you couldn't get two years out of them with minimal maintenance. Don't get too hung up on excessive wear and tear on such cheap drivetrain parts.

 

[arcascomp]

Caph,

I know I'll probably have to forget the hub gears, but I just prefer them as they tend to be less aggro over a number of years. also the cheap quality of gears used does worry me a bit although I know that doesn't mean they'll not last a year our so.

Cheers

Craig.

 

[flecc]

also the cheap quality of gears used does worry me a bit although I know that doesn't mean they'll not last a year our so.

Not as big a problem as it might seem with a hub-motor bike, since with the motor effectively doing at least half and often much more of the work, the transmission doesn't do anywhere near as much as it does on an unpowered bike. On a few of the most powerful bikes, the transmission scarcely needs to work at all.
.

 

[Tex]

Not as big a problem as it might seem with a hub-motor bike, since with the motor effectively doing at least half and often much more of the work, the transmission doesn't do anywhere near as much as it does on an unpowered bike. On a few of the most powerful bikes, the transmission scarcely needs to work at all.
.

on that, yes, definitely more transmission "noise" (and therefore also wear and tear) on my mid drive than on my hub motor drive bikes

 

[hoppy]

Have a look at Powerpedals website. They sell the Esprit for 895 with crank drive through 3 speed hub with throttle and disc brakes.

 

[arcascomp]

Thanks guys for the responses so far, having looked about at what's on offer in my (admittedly) tight budget for a 'cyclists' ebike I think I'm veering towards fitting a kit to a non powered bike such as a Kona Dr Good that would come in at close to my £1000 budget and fit most of the requirements except the wheelsize is bigger than I originally hoped for - might be selling some barely used Marathon Winters soon if that's the case!

Any comments on the kits available? The Sunlova kit at £410 is attractive and I'm fairly competent bike DIYer so fitting one doesn't scare me. Any experiences on their kits/support?

Is it worth the extra for Alien who I have heard lots of good stuff about (plus they are within drivable distance)? Have I just answered my own question there??

Is there other kits I should look at instead?

Thanks again,

Craig.