Mid Drive for off trail and Hub Motor for flat commutes, true or false?

John F

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some of my customers report about 15,000 miles with the original set of ballbearings whereas some only clock up 2,000 and need a new set. That shows how much variation there is if parking your bike in the rain or riding on a beach where salt gets inside the motor.
Is there any way of reducing rain input to bearings? Would applying some heavy grease to the spindle area help?
 

Andy-Mat

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Is there any way of reducing rain input to bearings? Would applying some heavy grease to the spindle area help?
Good bearings are "sealed for life".
The question is, what is the quality? There is a lot of rubbish around if the price is pushed too hard!
Just like cells for e-bike batteries!
Andy
 

mike killay

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I've known of a chain snapping three times.

When I was resting at the top of Ditchling Beacon, a roadie pushed up the last few yards after snapping his chain.

He was able to rejoin it using my chain breaker.

A lady rider in my cycling group snapped her chain riding across a car park.

The third was a pal of mine whose chain snapped on flat a flat road on the Isle of Wight.

That was another rejoined with my chain breaker.

Seems to me there's very little connection to strain.

Two of the three instances in my sample happened under next to no load.
Exactly what broke?
ie did both fish plates break or was it a rivet that came out?
 

Woosh

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Is there any way of reducing rain input to bearings? Would applying some heavy grease to the spindle area help?
there is no need to do anything. Grease may help a bit but can also be washed out. Also, ballbearings should not be overgreased.
Most of the cases I have seen are due to riding on the beach and parking the bike where it's rained on. Riding in the rain is not a problem.
Good bearings are "sealed for life".
good bearings are always better than cheap bearings but the rubber seals can't resist the pollutant (carbonic acid in rain and puddle water and grit). Once attacked, their working temperature increases, they degrade within a few months and need replacing.
 
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soundwave

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May 23, 2015
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there is no need to do anything. Grease may help a bit but can also be washed out. Also, ballbearings should not be overgreased.
Most of the cases I have seen are due to riding on the beach and parking the bike where it's rained on. Riding in the rain is not a problem.

good bearings are always better than cheap bearings but the rubber seals can't resist the pollutant (carbonic acid in rain and puddle water and grit). Once attacked, their working temperature increases, they degrade within a few months and need replacing.
DSC_0155.JPG

there was muddy water inside the seals and both were fooked seller took good care of it with a fkn jet washer :rolleyes:
 
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RobF

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Sep 22, 2012
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Exactly what broke?
ie did both fish plates break or was it a rivet that came out?
Can't recall, but all the chains were successfully rejoined so the failure cannot have been catastrophic.
 

Woosh

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Seems to me there's very little connection to strain.

Two of the three instances in my sample happened under next to no load.
true, but the point that was made by a few was that you can still ride home with a hub drive if the chain broke.
The other point is compared to unpowered bikes, crank drive inflicts more wear on chain and hub drive less.
 

RobF

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I cannot agree about chain wear, in any event, how long is a chain supposed to last?

More than 4,500 miles on my Charger and counting.

Even if the chain needed replacing now, so what?

About £20 for a reasonable one, less if you trawl about for an offer.

Consumable item, not worth worrying about.
 

soundwave

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it is if they cost this much ;)
 

RobF

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RobF

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soundwave

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well you are going to miss out on the 2g lighter more expensive one :p
 
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Andy-Mat

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there is no need to do anything. Grease may help a bit but can also be washed out. Also, ballbearings should not be overgreased.
Most of the cases I have seen are due to riding on the beach and parking the bike where it's rained on. Riding in the rain is not a problem.

good bearings are always better than cheap bearings but the rubber seals can't resist the pollutant (carbonic acid in rain and puddle water and grit). Once attacked, their working temperature increases, they degrade within a few months and need replacing.
I cannot say that anything like that has happened on either of my two e-bikes, or any of the normal bikes I have had over the last 65 years +, or most of the cars that I have had, many, but not all, who also have sealed bearings, often two per wheel, depending upon the design used.
My first e-bike I bought secondhand, I was told by the seller it was about a year old, I rode it for 6 years and gave it away with the original battery, carefully looked after by myself, with little or no loss of range noticed, but not tested for either...
All the motor parts were never "touched" by me as it just ran and ran, and if I remember correctly, somewhere about 18,000 Kms ridden.....In all weathers, and it was parked outside with just a cover over it....How many Kilometers it had been ridden in the first year, I do not have a clue!
What type of bearing also no idea!!
And even when I was in the RN, repairing both AC and DC motors, even quite large ones, with plenty of salt water and sea air, I have never had any such experiences.
They must all have had seals that were completely unaffected by such pollutants.....
But quality DOES play a significant role of course as it always does!
I personally also have not used or seen bearings that I could lubricate, except in my new bike's headset, and most bike's axles, the others were all lubricated and sealed for life, except for some cars wheel bearings, which were tapered and needed to be set to a specific torque on assembly.
You may find this informative:-
You must live close to something which pollutes the atmosphere where you live if that happens, and although I myself have never seen ball bearings with rubber seals, as they were always metal or some type of plastic.
Now I know enough to make sure that bearings with rubber seals are never bought, as it would appear that they are generally the cheapest bearing type available after checking up on the web....
Always something new and interesting to learn!
Thanks!
Andy
 

Woosh

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They must all have had seals that were completely unaffected by such pollutants.....
aluminium suffers from galvanic corrosion in presence of salt in the air.



once established, the corrosion spread. The product of aluminium corrosion attacks steel.

You have to clean all the parts and oil them.

 

Andy-Mat

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aluminium suffers from galvanic corrosion in presence of salt in the air.



once established, the corrosion spread. The product of aluminium corrosion attacks steel.

You have to clean all the parts and oil them.

True. Unprotected normal steel rusts in the same environment!
Myself I would never knowingly buy a bearing with aluminium in it!
I have also never heard of aluminium being used for ball or roller bearings on bikes and similar, so I find it hard to follow your reasoning!
Please be so kind as to explain fully?
 

Woosh

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Myself I would never knowingly buy a bearing with aluminium in it!
the aluminium is in the assembly casing, motor armature and casing.
The ballbearings get damaged collaterally because of the basicity by-product of aluminium corrosion. Al + 1 1/2 x O2 + H2O + NaCl = Al(OH)3 + NaOH + 1/2 H2 + 1/2 Cl.2

The sodium hydroxide then attacks steel.

 
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Andy-Mat

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the aluminium is in the assembly casing, motor armature and casing.
The ballbearings get damaged collaterally because of the basicity by-product of aluminium corrosion. Al + 1 1/2 x O2 + H2O + NaCl = Al(OH)3 + NaOH + 1/2 H2 + 1/2 Cl.2

The sodium hydroxide then attacks steel.

Not on my two e-bikes, both were aluminium framed! Maybe they were both built better maybe?
My previous normal bikes were either partly or fully aluminium too....same procedure!
I would wash the frames down from time to time with car wash liquid, let them dry, leathering off any moisture, then liberally spray them with WD-40, let it sink in for a few hours and sit the bike in the sun to drive off any moisture, then polish the WD-40 with a dry duster or kitchen roll.
But only a few times a year at most.
I learned that in the RN when we kept corrosion away from our helicopters (aluminium and other very light metals) using this method after each flight, just before the bird was going to be placed in the hangar.
Maybe that's an even better method than even I remember, and I really did not know how good it is, but it even keeps scrapes rust free....till I have enough interest to touch them up!
Try it!
 

Woosh

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To make a galvanic battery (the cause for galvanic corrosion), you need two metals connected by a conductive solution like saline.

Your frame will be corroded around any loosened bolt. If the bolt is tight, it will have the same voltage as the aluminium, no gap for an electrolyte to dwell in, no continuous current flows through the junction.

So make sure that there is no loosened bolts.
 

Andy-Mat

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To make a galvanic battery (the cause for galvanic corrosion), you need two metals connected by a conductive solution like saline.

Your frame will be corroded around any loosened bolt. If the bolt is tight, it will have the same voltage as the aluminium, no gap for an electrolyte to dwell in, no continuous current flows through the junction.

So make sure that there is no loosened bolts.
....and on my bikes, other than the tyres, brakes and rims when I used to have rim brakes, now disk brakes on my latest, everything else, in all the tiny gaps, will sit WD-40, stopping electrolytic corrosion!
Today, there must be many products around capable of doing just that, but I find that WD-40 is available in most supermarkets, often at very low prices, and I have been known to buy several cans at a time!
I will stick with it for the rest of my life at least....
I probably have around 6 cans (guessing!) at anyone time, just where I need them.....cellar, garage and all cars!
 
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EddiePJ

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Other than a means of degreasing, I have never found WD40 to be of little use for anything. I certainly know from using it on my woodworking tools and machinery (my trade) that it doesn't prevent corrosion, and doesn't act as great lubricant either. It is a brilliant product for cleaning bathroom chrome etc though.

I prefer either Triflow TFL200, Duck Oil or ACF50.
 
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