Mid-Motor - highest assist level and no speed restriction - battery life

[footpump]

hello david swp &gary cooper, I have just installed tsdz2 on a Carrera subway one.
I bought the kit from ebc based in datchworth, moter kit and spare mounting plate for the ebc downtube battery.
(I already have the ebc rear hub +battery fitted to sirrus elite,so could swop battery between 2 bikes)
I have a brand new yosepower 10.4 bottle battery to replace the one on my kudos vita uno when it eventually expires. but is now fitted to carreara

I had a hell of a job finding any ino or manual for setting up the vlcd5 dispay got one from cnebikes.com via email.
used bike for first time yesterday on some hills it seemed quicker than my sirrus and vita uno. but the sensor was not working so speed was judjed by cycle computer.

today I set lcd to mph speed to 15, amps to 13
speed sensor now working.

I am a bit baffled by this moters operation , tried a steep hill in turbo just made it but slightly harder work due to gearing

however a snag is the chain ring aligns ok with the first 4 cogs of cassette but is out of line with the 4 larger ones
tried a normal route smooth tarmac slightly downhill ,but I seemed to be doing about 8mph in tour mode?

tried a modest long slope (which kudos 2 out of 3 assist/sirrus 3 out of 5,would do fairly easy but the gearing would be lower 32f 39f)

had to go into turbo.

on the flat I am baffled I , it seems to deliver assist as you start off ,then it feels like no assistance is being supplied.

mine came with throttle, did 31miles pas seems to be non existant used throttle for last half mile home.

I thought 350w had torque sensor, 250w speed sensor.

garry where did you purchase kit from re new or older moter/softwar

not sure if I have a fault re power delivery?

thanks all

 

[D8ve]

I don't know your kit but on the bbs the lower settings have a lower cut off speed as well as lower power. So it might be assist to 8 mph in tour and 15 in turbo only?

 

[footpump]

thank you d8ve
that could well be the problem , this morning altered a 6km setting to on ,
assumed that was a walk mode option.

 

[anotherkiwi]

It is a different ride, I have my training wheels on too at the moment

So far my take is on the flat use lowest assist level and as I climb notch it up. Gearing is very important I need a better top gear. If you don't have a working PAS it will be difficult for the motor to know how much power to deliver.

 

[footpump]

emailed cnebikes for a bit more info, verified my sensor is torque,not speed as I thought it was.
the usb port on underside of display is for phone charging.
have turned 6km of and reset settings to 12amp max speed 25km ,

 

[footpump]

battery has had its first charge since purchase, tried some short but very steep hills , used sport and turbo, as you peddle a bit harder you can feel the assist up to 25km.
route of 10 miles outbound is hilly, stopped for tea, then rode to supermarket.
got on bike and its as if its forgot it settings not feeling any real assist?

a mile from home fairly flat, regardless of mode , and legs feeling a bit tired, peddaling slowly just came to dead stop and used throttle as well as peddling.

just tried local hill I use every day , in turbo I could not keep peddaling hard enough to reach top and again had to use the throttle.


the bit I am very happy with though is the 20 miles round trip which is fairly hilly ( I only do about 6 miles more on similar routes)

battery level has not dropped as yet

torqe sensor is definitely harder for me?

 

[anotherkiwi]

First off I didn't get that you has TS instead of PAS. One day I'll have to try a TS bike. I am getting the hang of my PAS now after about 200 km (no odometer yet). You either choose assist or range from what I can figure. We shall see when I have a controller that has PAS AND speed sensor working.

 

[DavidSWP]

Hi footpump, I can't help with the chain-line issue as I have a Nexus-8 on the back wheel and the chain-line is perfect with the tsdz2 after I swapped the supplied 42t concave chain-ring for a 46t flat one and flipped my 16t rear sprocket around. Changing to a flat chain-ring may also help you. The tsdz2 will take any 110 BCD chain-ring without an adapter.

Regarding going up hills, I've not had any problems with tsdz2. Depends what you call steep I guess but I would estimate the hill up to my house is around 1 in 5. My lowest gear ratio is 53% (which I suppose is quite high as I've geared it for speed mainly) and I can go up this hill with very little effort with assist levels 2,3, 4 (turbo). I think I tried eco but had to stop.

On the flat I find tsdz2 provides very good assist all the way to the cut-off. How did you set it to 15mph by the way? On mine I just have a setting to turn the 25kph max speed setting on or off. I've changed the display units to mph but the max speed setting is still just the 25kph on/off thing. Actually even with this set to 'On' the assist actually turns off at exactly 20mph, not 15.5mph. If I turn it off then the assist is there at any speed. The assist works the same through all 4 assist levels, just progressively stronger.

This is when its working properly. As I've mentioned it sometimes goes wacky and will only assist while going up hills or if you pedal like a maniac. But this only happens after the fault which for some reason makes the battery pack switch itself off. Leaving it for a few minutes usually sorts it out.

I spoke to the supplier who said that the only thing he'd heard about before which sounded similar was when people were pedalling with low cadence in a higher gear which caused the motor to begin stalling and demanding too much power from the battery. I don't think its that though, I've never had any problems while pedalling in a high gear with low cadence, the kit seems perfectly happy with it. If anything the fault seems to happen most while coasting. The other suggestion was a battery fault and he offered to swap it but I never got around to sending it back.

 

[D8ve]

First off I didn't get that you has TS instead of PAS. One day I'll have to try a TS bike. I am getting the hang of my PAS now after about 200 km (no odometer yet). You either choose assist or range from what I can figure. We shall see when I have a controller that has PAS AND speed sensor working.

I love TS it's so natural. The harder you pedal the greater the assist. Go softly for slow speed. It's just like having younger legs.
And no just touching the pedal and it leaps off out of control.

 

[anotherkiwi]

And no just touching the pedal and it leaps off out of control.

I'm working on that... First of all I have the controller set up to always turn on in Level 1 - that has all but cured it. Next step drop the internal PAS for external.

 

[footpump]

thanks davidswp for info
as regards chainline , I can access the 5 lowest gears ok the other 3 the chain is too far offset for me to want to run it under assist, I leave it 4th sprocket.
in my case the chain needs to go inboard a bit more/
can you elaborate on the flat/concave chainring.

in the vlcd5 manual I posted on this thread, default is km and set to 25km=15mph this is the sp setting (6th option in menu)
I then set km to miles, scrolled through menus and noticed the very last has 25mph on/off there is nothing in the manual about this.
I then went back from miles to km, but the moter cuts out assist at 25km/15mph so then went back to miles per hour.

now done 137 miles it can all be working fine, I stop for shopping etc,then find I have no assist at all , when I wish to continue journey.
my display is ok, nothing cuts out, no error codes.

so I turn off battery then on again to try and reboot the pas
did you manage to get any info on older/newer moters or firmware upgrades?
I emailed cnebikes on this matter but did not get a reply
the max sp in settings I think on mine is 32km

 

[DavidSWP]

If you need the chain to be closer to the bike frame then a flat chain-ring will move it in perhaps 5mm or a little more. The one the motor comes with is a convex shape, i.e. the teeth are further out than the central part of the chain-ring were it attaches to the motor unit.

I've not found anything new out about how to update the firmware or where to get a programming cable. One does exist though because I saw a video on YouTube in Chinese where someone reprogrammed one using his PC.

I haven't seen a max speed setting other than the 25kph on/off thing. When I had it set to off, I could feel assist while doing 30+ mph and feel the slight vibration of the motor working. I have it set to on now though because it cuts out at 20mph which is fine for me and save battery. When I had it set to off and in turbo mode I only got 16 miles out of it.

 

[anotherkiwi]

I'm getting between 40 and 50 km with the GSM "unrestricted". It is in fact cadence restricted so by pedaling slowly I get more assist in any gear. Up to 45km/h...

 

[footpump]

hi david is it just the 5 hex bolts you need to remove to remove chainring?
id like to go a bit lower than 42t/
looking at sp setting it goes from 16-45 assume this is km
I set this to 28, turned 25km to off
however when I looked at setup menus the 28km had disappeared, setting 25km to on it reappeared.
with the 25km off it seems to get up to speed quicker (in my case about 15-17mph) but range decreases a bit

I tried a very steep local hill yesterday in turbo , got up most of it ok, but the fact you've got to keep peddling found it a bit hard , managed to find a bit of space to rest legs, and get out of very heavy traffic
I tried the throttle this applies assistance up to 15.5mph

 

[DavidSWP]

Yes, its just the 5 hex bolts.

 

[DavidSWP]

 

[anotherkiwi]

Today first ride with LiPo power

<- me
<- various car drivers

No GPS but from experience speeds in excess of 40 km/h attained in very few seconds. Maybe an s-pedelec isn't such a bad idea after all... Now I am really hankering for a 32 Ah pack.

 

[Kinninvie]

Today first ride with LiPo power

<- me
<- various car drivers

No GPS but from experience speeds in excess of 40 km/h attained in very few seconds. Maybe an s-pedelec isn't such a bad idea after all... Now I am really hankering for a 32 Ah pack.

It can be a bit addictive....
I started with 10Ah,then 16Ah,32Ah and now I run up to 48Ah which gives me up to 150 miles of easy riding or 100 miles flogging my BBS02 at up to almost 1400W.....
Of course you do need somewhere to mount them all.

 

[Nealh]

Yep addiction catch's on, I'm likewise I ride out with 37.8 or 44.4ah, all tucked into the Additive bag. Makes the front end a tad heavy so no jumping for me. Where I can I try and tonk it, following my near 70 miles on Monday my lipo's still had plenty to go the 31.2 ah's were at 38v and the 13,2's at 39.7v the sag is minimal at about 0.3v.

 

[krusher74]

I love TS it's so natural. The harder you pedal the greater the assist. Go softly for slow speed. It's just like having younger legs.
And no just touching the pedal and it leaps off out of control.

I have rode the Bosch system bike and the TS is the apposed of that, when you start to struggle and are therefore and applying less TQ tot he pedals the motor kicks in and help, pretty much like tQ fill on a F1 car.