mods (e.g. drop bars) for more aero ride position?

[Beeping-Sleauty]

more about butterflys

Hi Beeps,

Ooh, I'm really beginning to like this idea too. Are those the combined brake and gear levers on there?

Nick

Hi Nick

no the brakes + gears are seperate,

[/

one of the things i like about these bars is that you can lean forward, arms straight and this really brings the middle muscle groups into the effort, whilst being extremely comfortable and more streamlined, or you can sit back almost upright, or anywhere in between as it is possible to ride with hands in different positions. and... they are almost impossible to fall off, no ends you see.

it's a bit like having two handlebars, plus bar ends,

as someone mentioned earlier in the thread, it takes two days to put bars on, but for me this effort really paid off in terms of the extra comfort & increased control, it has really enhanced my ride.

 

[HarryB]

I was in Belgium a few weeks ago and there were loads of cyclists about. I was taken by this sort of multi-position handlebars but couldn't work out where everything would go (mirror, gears) on my Agattu. I have been encouraged by this thread and ordered the handlebars and grips from ebay. I hated the original handlebars and the Halford's ones I bought don't feel right so hopefully the multi-position will do. So thanks Beebs for your ideas. Like the extra brake levers as well - are those ebay as well?

 

[Beeping-Sleauty]

Lever extenders

I was in Belgium a few weeks ago and there were loads of cyclists about. I was taken by this sort of multi-position handlebars but couldn't work out where everything would go (mirror, gears) on my Agattu. I have been encouraged by this thread and ordered the handlebars and grips from ebay. I hated the original handlebars and the Halford's ones I bought don't feel right so hopefully the multi-position will do. So thanks Beebs for your ideas. Like the extra brake levers as well - are those ebay as well?

Hi HarryB

the lever extensions are excellent, but i have'nt seen any on eBay

the ones on the bike are TekTro, but haven't been able to find anyone who has them...

i did recently find some others,

these are called Mounty Special Lever-sticks and are German, they are a copy of the late & much lamented original Delta XT brake lever extender, which i have not to this day, been able to get my hands on.

let me know if you can't find any

 

[coops]

Thanks very much beeps, that was very helpful and sorry for the delay in replying.

I especially liked the "it's a bit like having two handlebars, plus bar ends" description! Very graphical

I was all for fitting (to my current bars) aero bars in an unorthodox wide spacing for better control, but then realised that trekking/butterfly bars offered more intermediate hand positions and a smoother transition to the forward more 'aero' position I was after, aswell as allowing a simpler & more accessible controls arrangement, and cheaper too!

So I just bought some 590mm wide trekking bars & fitted them to my MTB (a quick switch) to try them out and I'm very pleased with the result . I'd missed that feeling you get pulling back on the bars to increase pedal pressure for acceleration or hills, which you can't really do with the usual riser bars, and the hand positions on the sides are reminiscent of riding drops on the top 'sides' though wider so more steering control.

I've fitted them the other way round from beeps, with the bar 'ends' to the front but still above the clamp point as beeps are: its hard to tell from the 2D pictures but the bars actually bend up gradually from the clamp point, like riser bars, and then stay level, so the 'ends' are above the centre. Fitting this way is probably non-standard because theres now no hand position which exactly replicates flat/riser bars, the curvature being wrong for that, but thats ok for me because I like the side & froward grip positions and the controls are all at the front anyway .

Its surprising how the curve of the bar makes the controls easily accessible from either the front of the sides or the front itself: I even fitted some bar ends to the front to further extend the forward reach which is now equivalent to aero bars though with better control from slightly wider spacing, and I can easily brake or gearshift with little hand movement required. I seem to have unwittingly reproduced something like 'bullhorn' bars in function, though much more comfortable and with narrower 'horns' and a greater forward reach .

Fitting a mirror might take some working out - best option looks to fit a side extension to my 'DIY aero bars' to use as a mounting point, because with the 'aero extensions' in the most natural position the ends don't extend sideways far enough to allow a rear view. Shame, because I picked up a very adjustable & compact, retractable mirror for the MTB while I was there - a zefal 'spin' - very neat piece of kit I think, though maybe a tad too small!

The main thing for me though is that like beeps said you've got plenty more useful riding positions, and I've already found I can ride with seemingly the same effort or less 1 gear higher up from my usual 'cruising' gear i.e. 68.25 vs 60.66 gear inches in this case, or about 14-15mph vs 12.5mph, so I'm hopeful it should take a comparable load off the motor too at these sorts of speeds, for better range .

I'll try to post more once I've fitted & tried them on the Torq1.

I'm interested to hear how you get on with yours too Hal .

Stuart.

 

[TomB]

I've fitted them the other way round.

sounds interesting coops, could you post a photo?

been thinking about this mod myself.

 

[coops]

Pictures would make it somewhat easier to describe... but unfortunately no camera!

However, next best thing hopefully - see these images (not my bikes!):

(taken from this page)

Then this pic (too big for the screen hence link) (1 of 2 from this thread page) shows bar extensions on trekking bars with the reverse orientation from mine.

In the first 2 the bars are oriented like mine except the clamp is at the highest point - with mine the clamp is the lowest point ie turned upside-down from that, and the bar ends fitted are at a similar angle & position to the other photo link, except with the straight bar section at the front, and the bar ends I've used are the common mid-length type - with a slight curve up at the end (they extend about 13cm from the bar front). Total reach from rear of bars to front of bar-ends is about 29cm, comparable to aero bars length, except no elbow pad needed, more stable steering due to larger bar contact area (forearms in two places plus hands) and wider aero bar spacing (about 37.5cm total centre-to-centre width separation midway along the bar ends, though variable depending on brake/gear levers) - doesn't sound too much & less than some drop bars but it does feel quite stable, though a bit too far over front wheel axis on the MTB - I think it'll be better on the Torq1 for handling in that respect .

Hope that helps give you a better idea ...

PS As I hinted at, this setup isn't ideal for anyone after a 'standard' upright riding position, due to the very forward main hand positions and controls, but I find the forward position suits my riding style & I hope it will be comfortable for extended periods of use - one can still sit up & ride gripping the bars at the rear for a break, but thats less useable due to the bar shape curving away from the body as said .

Stuart.

 

[Beeping-Sleauty]

Butterflies abound....

Pictures would make it somewhat easier to describe... but unfortunately no camera!

In the first 2 the bars are oriented like mine except the clamp is at the highest point - with mine the clamp is the lowest point ie turned upside-down from that, and the bar ends fitted are at a similar angle & position to the other photo link, except with the straight bar section at the front, and the bar ends I've used are the common mid-length type - with a slight curve up at the end (they extend about 13cm from the bar front). Total reach from rear of bars to front of bar-ends is about 29cm, comparable to aero bars length, except no elbow pad needed, more stable steering due to larger bar contact area (forearms in two places plus hands) and wider aero bar spacing (about 37.5cm total centre-to-centre width separation midway along the bar ends, though variable depending on brake/gear levers) - doesn't sound too much & less than some drop bars but it does feel quite stable, though a bit too far over front wheel axis on the MTB - I think it'll be better on the Torq1 for handling in that respect .

Hope that helps give you a better idea ...

Stuart.

and me just a lowly moth....

glad you're 'getting to grips' (pun intended) with your new bars Stuart, but please allow moi to offer one note of caution regarding the bar-ends and their position,

some years ago, a aussie chum of mine mounted bar-ends to his bull bars, whilst leaning forward on them and travelling at speed the motorist in front braked sharply & stopped, my chum had no time to reach for his brakes, collided with the rear of the car and was thrown forward, jack-kniving across his bars at which point the r/h bar-end perforated one of his kidneys.

he was OK, but gave up cycling, so please consider the angle of the bar-end and perhaps rubberise them, just a thought.

look forward to seeing the finished article,
beeps

 

[coops]

Yes, very good point beeps - thanks - I had wondered about the safety aspect of it and it doesn't look good for anyone (pedestrian) you might collide with either... so primary safety always is a must: I might not need the bar ends on the Torq when I transfer the bars, or could use lower profile ones instead. Might have to rethink how to mount the mirror too, now you've said that... . Maybe I should practice doing a forward handspringing vault & somersault off the bar ends!

I've fitted my butterfly bars themselves angled forward slightly (higher at rear) and the bar ends don't angle upwards to a level any higher than the central bar clamp, so not too bad and a good angle for a forward handspring!

In truth the bars do look odd, but they do work for me .

Do you mean your friend had bullhorn bars, which curve up like the name suggests, and added bar ends to lengthen the horn bits? If so that does sound a bit more dangerous than mine in the unfortunate situation you described - my brakes are also very easily reachable: I can pull the levers from midway along the extensions so at most I'd have to move hand back a couple of inches to brake when in the foremost ride position . Brakes/controls are further from the bar rear, but I don't see myself using that position much at all, and then only for very slow off-road riding away from traffic, which should give more time to reach for them if necessary.

Stuart.

 

[TomB]

trick for comfort

one trick that some cyclists use on road bars could be applied to these butterfly bars.

the trick is to use some old inner tube to cover the bars before wrapping in bar tape - gives a luxury feel and a nice look...

hair spray can be used to slide the cut tube on - it drys sticky.

 

[burncycle]

I do love butterfly bars!
Tried them on the Dawes Kara Kum.
There also used on the Flyer T9 pedelec.

 

[HarryB]

Mini-review of multi-position handlebars

The problem I always had with the original Agattu handlebars was than I never felt I had the control that flatter bars give. So I fitted some bars from Halfords but then you sit with your arms very forward, so I thought that multi-position bars that I had seen in Belgium were worth exploring. I fitted some on Tuesday - a very good service from the ebay member by the way (as recommended by Beeps).

First impression, when collecting the children from school, was great - they look a bit odd but it was good to have brought the bars nearer to me for control and comfort. However off to work on Wednesday for some reason I hated them - couldn't put my finger on it but they felt odd. However they have grown on me enormously. Near position in traffic with the brakes to hand but the other positions, forward to gain a small amount of aerodynamic advantage, on the side for standing up off the saddle. I could really do with the extra levers for the brake but they seem impossible to get hold of.

One problem I have is the look - my rule is that cycling should be as normal an activity as possible - you know, you wear your normal clothes but tuck your corduroy trousers in your socks. But my bike now seems to be customised and looks anything but normal and I now wear cycling tops and have ordered some cycling glasses. When will it stop!

Here are some photos of the Agattu with those handlebars.

Flickr: HarryBFlickr's Photostream

 

[coops]

Thanks for the tip TomB - cheaper than the gel inserts to go under tape too!

I forgot to say that, though its hard to tell on my front sus MTB, I'm fairly sure the ride is more sprung and softer thru the bars due to the shape, which flexes - especially when weight is partly on the 'straight' bit (these bars are a joy to use but a nightmare to describe in words!) : I hope this doesn't risk premature failure of the alloy especially on the Torq which is the big test . Currently I've simply got two short foam sleeves, one on each side, & its very comfy .

Nice pics Hal - which set did you get? They look like the steel ones rather than the alloy?

I know what you mean about them looking unusual/custom, but I think they're so versatile & functional they deserve to catch on in the UK & beyond Europe & I'm sure I'll soon grow to be as fond of them as beeps & burncycle .

As for customising/accesorising, don't get me started - that's a whole other thread!! (I think there is one for accessories/addons/mods somewhere?) and we're certainly not alone there - who else was talking about costs of extra bits recently? Its all good though if it enhances the cycling .

Stuart.

 

[HarryB]

Nice pics Hal - which set did you get? They look like the steel ones rather than the alloy?


Stuart.

steel as I was being a cheapskate. I might upgrade at some stage if they become a permanent feature.

 

[Beeping-Sleauty]

The problem I always had with the original Agattu handlebars was than I never felt I had the control that flatter bars give. So I fitted some bars from Halfords but then you sit with your arms very forward, so I thought that multi-position bars that I had seen in Belgium were worth exploring. I fitted some on Tuesday - a very good service from the ebay member by the way (as recommended by Beeps).

First impression, when collecting the children from school, was great - they look a bit odd but it was good to have brought the bars nearer to me for control and comfort. However off to work on Wednesday for some reason I hated them - couldn't put my finger on it but they felt odd. However they have grown on me enormously. Near position in traffic with the brakes to hand but the other positions, forward to gain a small amount of aerodynamic advantage, on the side for standing up off the saddle. I could really do with the extra levers for the brake but they seem impossible to get hold of.

Here are some photos of the Agattu with those handlebars.

Good pix HarryB, your bars look great, but then i would say that... would'nt i,


as for the brake lever extensions,....i knew these would be difficult to find, sorry 'bout that,

you could try this guy,

Unicycle.UK.com - Product Page - "Delta XT Style Brake Lever Extender"

he told me i had bought the last pair & couldn't get any more, but i'm sure if enough people asked he' would find some somewhere.

the last pair listed on eBay, perhaps try a email see if he can get any more, he is obviously selling lots of Tektro stuff.

New Tektro MTB Bike Brake Lever Extension Blue - eBay (item 360057657614 end time Jun-11-08 07:29:41 PDT)

these are the same as the pink ones in my earlier photo, at least Tektro is still involved so there must be a part number, i'll see if i can track it down

in the meantime, i'll keep looking,

best
Beeps

 

[coops]

A quick update on the 'bar' trek... er, I mean, trek bars...

I think I've settled on the 'standard' orientation - same way as beeps (the other way round felt rather awkward & unnatural in the end and affects control) but flipped so the wings are lower than the headset for more of a drop, and with the headset angle fully forward: my saddle is quite high and previously the riser bars were level or just above saddle height and the trekking bar grips are now 4.5-5 inches below that and have the same 'reach' from the saddle - thanks to essexman & tour de france coverage for the tips on 'drop' .

Ok, so its not a huge drop, but it makes a difference while not being too extreme which is what I wanted, and with the added benefits of more hand positions and better shock absorption too.

I still find padded, ergonomic grips are necessary to avoid hand discomfort on bumpy roads (yours look good beeps, which ones are they?), just as I did with the original Torq1 bars (though for the trekking bars, grips without a rigid inflexible core fit best, so not the Specialized BG comfort ones) but the shocks through the bars are considerably less than with those and I can fairly comfortably ride over bumps I would have had to avoid before - even with more weight on my hands in the lower position.

Very happy with them so far: still adjusting to the different ride & grip positon but since they've exceeded my objective I'm very satisfied.

Stuart.

 

[Beeping-Sleauty]

A quick update on the 'bar' trek... er, I mean, trek bars...

I think I've settled on the 'standard' orientation - same way as beeps (the other way round felt rather awkward & unnatural in the end and affects control) but flipped so the wings are lower than the headset for more of a drop, and with the headset angle fully forward: my saddle is quite high and previously the riser bars were level or just above saddle height and the trekking bar grips are now 4.5-5 inches below that and have the same 'reach' from the saddle - thanks to essexman & tour de france coverage for the tips on 'drop' .

Ok, so its not a huge drop, but it makes a difference while not being too extreme which is what I wanted, and with the added benefits of more hand positions and better shock absorption too.

I still find padded, ergonomic grips are necessary to avoid hand discomfort on bumpy roads (yours look good beeps, which ones are they?),

Stuart.

Hi Stuart,

glad you like your new bars, the grips i have are these:

Ergo Grips - With Gel Inserts - Cycle / Bike / Bicycle on eBay, also Stems, Handlebars Headsets, Bike Parts, Cycling, Sporting Goods (end time 14-Aug-08 01:49:49 BST)

i bought mine in Halfords at about the same price, i cut about 1.5" off them so that the 'gel' end is under the pressure point of my palm when i'm changing gears and twisting throttle.

i also like the look of these:

BRAND NEW ERGON GP1-L HANDLEBAR GRIPS 130/130 on eBay, also Stems, Handlebars Headsets, Bike Parts, Cycling, Sporting Goods (end time 14-Aug-08 07:15:59 BST)

but not sure if they will flex enough to fit round the bend about an inch.

still got my eye out for the extender levers, no response from UpGradeBikes Ltd who are the distributor for Tektro in the UK, but i'm still on the case.

best,
beeps

 

[coops]

Thanks beeps,

Those ergo grips look even better now I can see them more clearly, another link here - I wonder if halfords still stock them? Their website is short on products & poorly laid out so I'll have to drop in if I'm passing.

The Ergon do look smart, but very pricey indeed and probably have a rigid core, so as you say will be limited how far they'll slide on - the Specialized BG grips I had were unsuitable for the same reason and in fact the metal tensioner intended to hold the grip in place on the bar-end prevented them from being easily slid on to the bar at all.

Stuart.

 

[Beeping-Sleauty]

Thanks beeps,

Those ergo grips look even better now I can see them more clearly, another link here - I wonder if halfords still stock them? Their website is short on products & poorly laid out so I'll have to drop in if I'm passing.

The Ergon do look smart, but very pricey indeed and probably have a rigid core, so as you say will be limited how far they'll slide on - the Specialized BG grips I had were unsuitable for the same reason and in fact the metal tensioner intended to hold the grip in place on the bar-end prevented them from being easily slid on to the bar at all.

Stuart.

the BioLogic ones in the link look better quality than mine, Halfords here still had them a couple of weeks ago, i can grab some & post them to you if you really, really, want this type and can't get them locally...?

i also looked at these:

ERGON BIKE ERGONOMICS

and these:

Grips - Ergon

got totally bamboozled & went for the cheap Halfords one... heh heh.. there's method to my madness.

best,
beeps

 

[coops]

Thanks for your very kind offer beeps, much appreciated, but I wouldn't want you to go to such lengths on my account besides there's no need because I'd like to be able to check something like this 'hands on' before I decide . They might look good, but...

The ones I'm trying right now are these - now they don't look half as bad as the picture suggests (though they're not exactly that stylish either!) - the padded grip bit is actually a greenish grey, but they seem very ergonomically shaped, quite well gel-padded, and no rigid core so can fit around the bar bend a little.

The Ergons, I must admit I didn't even look to see if they had a solid core or not, for bend fitting, cos I was put off by the price & the packaging looked as if it made them inaccessible to check... thats my reasoning! - PS The metal locking mechanism at the grip end of the Ergon would alone prevent fitting beyond the bend of the bars, so cheap & cheerful ergo grips work best I think!

I'll check halfords here, see what they have, perhaps...

PS I'm pretty pleased with the range with the new bars - just got 33miles with mixed use, constant amber after 23 miles & much of the last 10 miles heavy on throttle power to run down the battery. I'd probably get more like 25-27miles before, though could be I'm getting fitter too...

Regards,
Stuart.

 

[Beeping-Sleauty]

Thanks for your very kind offer beeps, much appreciated, but I wouldn't want you to go to such lengths on my account besides there's no need because I'd like to be able to check something like this 'hands on' before I decide . They might look good, but...

The ones I'm trying right now are these - now they don't look half as bad as the picture suggests (though they're not exactly that stylish either!) - the padded grip bit is actually a greenish grey, but they seem very ergonomically shaped, quite well gel-padded, and no rigid core so can fit around the bar bend a little.

The Ergons, I must admit I didn't even look to see if they had a solid core or not, for bend fitting, cos I was put off by the price & the packaging looked as if it made them inaccessible to check... thats my reasoning! - PS The metal locking mechanism at the grip end of the Ergon would alone prevent fitting beyond the bend of the bars, so cheap & cheerful ergo grips work best I think!

I'll check halfords here, see what they have, perhaps...

PS I'm pretty pleased with the range with the new bars - just got 33miles with mixed use, constant amber after 23 miles & much of the last 10 miles heavy on throttle power to run down the battery. I'd probably get more like 25-27miles before, though could be I'm getting fitter too...

Regards,
Stuart.

the Revolution Contact Ultra Explorer Grips ( bit of a mouthfull...) look OK, but as you say, the proof is in the riding, like you, i was hesitant to splash out the best part of £25 without even seeing the item in real life, never mind actually trying them out, but i'm quite happy with the ones i have.

i've used butterfly bars for about 12 years and have them on all my bikes, i love the improved handling and also the choice of hand-holds eliminates hand/arm fatigue, i found my upper body strength improved because i can really pull against the bars on hills and stretch forward on the flats.

best,
beeps