My first entry into the world of E-Bikes

[daniel.weck]

What is the top bit on that 30amp cct breaker NRG it looks like a connector or something ?

The switch is pressed on NRG's photos, I would have thought ?

 

[Alex728]

there is something like that on the back of one of the UPS's I installed at work. Did all the bits come from Farnell? although I don't as yet have the time to build an ebike I am interested in high current low voltage power supplies (and associated kit) as part of some renewable energy projects..

 

[NRG]

Sorry guys, should have posted the parts list would have been helpful! ....yes all came from Farnell.

This is the cct breaker, its a press on reset only....I would have liked the ability to have a manual 'trip' or pull off version but they where too expensive....

TYCO ELECTRONICS|W58-XB1A4A-30|CIRCUIT BREAKER, 30A, PUSH RESET | Farnell United Kingdom


These are the 3 pin connectors I used for the motor phase wires, 19amp rating not 12 like I said before!

The pin and socket terminals are listed in the Accessories section below...

JST (JAPAN SOLDERLESS TERMINALS)|VLP-03V|CONNECTOR HOUSING, P, 3WAY | Farnell United Kingdom

JST (JAPAN SOLDERLESS TERMINALS)|VLR-03V|CONNECTOR HOUSING, R, 3WAY | Farnell United Kingdom

One word of caution with the above JST connectors: They are not quick release! So if out on the road and I get another puncture I'm going to need the use of a small sturdy screwdriver to release the locking latch...

The inline power connectors I used where these:

This one for the battery....

MOLEX|19432-0013|RECEPTACLE, 10-12 AWG, 2WAY | Farnell United Kingdom


And this for the controller and one for my bench charging rig:

MOLEX|19433-0013|PLUG, 10-12 AWG, 2WAY | Farnell United Kingdom

Again the terminals are listed in the Accessories section. There's a 40amp version available as well for the paranoid welders amongst us!

It took me a while to figure out how to insert the terminals...the inner white plastic housings in both plug and socket pull forward allowing the terminal to be inserted into the rear of the connector until you hear a 'click' then the white part is pushed back into the connector clicking in place again and locking in the terminal pins.

For reference, on the balance battery lead I made up I used these JST connectors:

JST (JAPAN SOLDERLESS TERMINALS)|XHP-8|CONNECTOR HOUSING, 8WAY | Farnell United Kingdom

JST (JAPAN SOLDERLESS TERMINALS)|B4B-XH-A (LF)(SN)|HEADER, VERTICAL, 4WAY | Farnell United Kingdom

JST (JAPAN SOLDERLESS TERMINALS)|B5B-XH-A (LF)(SN)|HEADER, VERTICAL, 5WAY | Farnell United Kingdom


Terminals:

JST (JAPAN SOLDERLESS TERMINALS)|SXH-001T-P0.6|CRIMP TERMINAL, XH, 28-22AWG | Farnell United Kingdom

 

[jerrysimon]

Thanks that a nifty little device. This is great info, as I need to do this later. Frank tells me that the Tonxin should should never really have more than 10amps put through it. One of these 12amp resetable fuses would be a good option ?

SCHURTER|TS-709-12|CIRCUIT BREAKER, PANEL MOUNT, | Farnell United Kingdom

Alternatively I could buy a CA.

Re connectors I like the Cytronex one they use on their the front forks.

Does anyone know what it is and where is comes from ?

I will have a look later and see if it has any markings on it.

Regards

Jerry

 

[NRG]

Hi Jerry, that one's only 32v DC, not sure what voltage you will be using....this one is rated for 50v DC 12amp:

SCHURTER|TS-701-HT-12|CIRCUIT BREAKER, PANEL MOUNT, | Farnell United Kingdom

 

[jerrysimon]

Oops I was not checking voltage

I will be using 12s, 3.3v, A123 cells so at full charge it would be 43.2v, if the cells go up to 3.6v.

So you are right I will need one that can take a little more voltage.

Thanks

Jerry

 

[john]

Thanks that a nifty little device. This is great info, as I need to do this later. Frank tells me that the Tonxin should should never really have more than 10amps put through it. One of these 12amp resetable fuses would be a good option ?

A circuit breaker is not really useful for limiting supply current, only the controller can do that job effectively by sensing the current and 'throttling back'.

 

[jerrysimon]

Thanks for that John.

I need to wait until the controller arrives with the Tonxin's I am ordering from China, to see what they are and what current they restrict at.

As I said the alternative I guess would be to buy a CA.

Regards

Jerry

 

[john]

Yes, the CA can do it but you would have to use an external shunt as you cannot get to the Tongxin shunt since the controller is potted.

You would expect the Tongxin controller to be matched to the motor and the one I have limits to 12A.

 

[NRG]

I managed to hit Low voltage cutoff today, 28 Miles and climbing my last steep hill before home the little BM6 monitors started chirping just near the top! I throttled off and continued for about half a mile in which time the battery had recovered and they stopped singing....but they kicked in again on a small incline so the last 1.5 miles was under my own power.... A couple of Lycra's went by the other way and gave me a strange look as I beeped my way past LOL!

Still that's 28 miles of very hilly terrain and quite a bit of on the flat riding at top speed so the battery did well. I also set the LVC conservatively at 3.2v / cell or 20% capacity so maybe a little bit more to be had but the green and orange handlebar lights went out so perhaps 3.2v is the correct setting.

My only concern is that one cell did dip to 3v and the packs are a little unbalanced but this is first time I've depleted the pack (I did it on the bench under controlled conditions) so I'm hoping the battery will condition and improve over time.

 

[NRG]

They call it Kentucky Fried Finger on Endless-Sphere, now I know why!

This was a very quick and brutal lesson, the power in these batteries is truly amazing. I've improved the way I charge my Lipo pack by using a Meanwell 24v PSU tweaked to give 29v out. These chargers are CC/CV types and work well....the 350W unit I have charges my pack in about an hour and has a progressive charge curve dropping the current as the voltage reaches 29v ( 4.11v / cell ). This along with my LVC at 3.2v should mean I get plenty of cycles from the pack.

However, what I forgot to do today is to disconnect the leads at the battery....where there is a nice insulated and protected power connector...instead I pull the leads out of the Meanwell PSU and the 4mm bullet ends just touched against each other for the briefest of moments and POW! You can see the result, it was like a flash bulb going off so bright and intense was the light! Luckily no injury was caused, I escaped with no burns just a black finger....however the poor bullet plugs took the full force as you can see above!

On a brighter note I picked up a little tip on ES about paralleling up all the cells when bulk charging the pack IE when not balance charging. So I made up this 'Parallelenator' device. The idea is with the pack paralleled at the cell level there will be some self balancing between the cells helping to keep them balanced for longer without a specific balance charge....

I'll see if this really helps over the next 10 cycles.

 

[daniel.weck]

Glad to hear you're ok. I finally added a fuse box on my 36V 10Ah LiFePo4 battery today...it's always a bit stressful playing with a live wire in a limited space (5cm from the BMS, and a very tight connector due to the diameter of the cables). Anyway, all set now, so at least my expen$ive investment is protected

 

[eddieo]

I would double up on the household insurance.

 

[Newbie]

Also almost ready to retrofit

Firstly NRG thank you so much for your 'first entry' story. It has reminded me to be wary of the 'ConhisMotor's of this world.

As electric bikes are only just beginning to enter the Australian market (I think the 200W limit is posing problems so far) I've only been able to locate 1 or 2 bike shops willing to retrofit my 27-speed Trek bike with an electric kit, and even then with a very poor configuration. I live in a very hilly area so believe a 36V 350W motor with 36V 12Ah+ battery would be a nice starting point.

Prior to reading your story I also thought the ConhisMotor offerings seemed very interesting in both variety and price. But I'm now wary of the quality issues and other problems you described. Maybe Alien Bikes or another kit supplier would be a better choice for me.

A few questions: (1) why a hub rather than chain-drive motor? (2) if hub, which is better, front or rear? (3) why should I be interested in whether my hub motor is geared or direct drive? and (4) the ConhisMotor batteries seem (to me) very reasonable in price and (I think) quite compact; why did you choose others?

If there are other retrofit kit suppliers (motor etc and battery/charger) that you also think well of would you please let me know.

Happy Cycling,

Neil (Sydney, Oztralia)

 

[NRG]

Hi Neil,

Welcome to the forum!

Why a hub? Remember I'm new to this as well I wasn't really aware of any chain-drive kits plus there's simply more choice of hub motor kits available....in retrospect I would have still gone with with a hub motor as I think the installation looks neater and is also easier to implement.

There are debates about whether front or rear is best....I suppose rear is technically best but its slightly harder to implement due to the necessity of incorporating the gears. It's said rear is better for handling and front hubs can compromise the handling, I've not found that with my Alien front hub bike so I think it really comes down to what you prefer....a plus with front hubs is you have two wheel drive instead of one....oh, and the weight balance in theory should be better, who knows?

A geared motors armatures spin faster and they use reduction gears which means they have greater torque and are therefore better for climbing hills so your choice of 350W/36V looks to be a good choice.... The downside is they are noisier (a lot) than direct drive and the planet reduction gears can break but they are smaller, neater looking units but the biggest benefit is they weigh a heck of a lot less!

The upside to direct drive motors is greater top speed, I find mine is about 3~4mph faster than my Alien. I've also found with the Peugeot that I need to attack hills faster than I would with my Alien. If I can maintain approx. half of top speed (10mph or so) the direct drive climbs hills very well but I have to put in a fair amount of effort to keep this speed up, on the other hand with the Alien it will chugg away at a lower speed with less effort from me....

I went for Lipo's after reading a lot of info about them on Endless Sphere, they provide the best ratio of size and weight to power density of any battery, so I chose them in an effort to offset as much as possible the heavy Conhis motor.....and they worked out the cheapest option! Also they had to fit in a tight 150mm x 200mm space. I also liked the easy configuration / reconfiguration of the packs...I can easily reconfigure to get a 36v 10Ah setup....and this is what I'm planning on doing for the next phase of my DIY project They downside is they need very careful handling during use, cell voltages ideally should be kept between 3.2v minimum and 4.15v maximum. If these limits are observed then they are said to last for up to 800+ cycles...good enough for me!

I hope this helps! Please come back and let us know how you get on!

 

[jerrysimon]

Welcome to the forum Neil. Man I would swap your summer for our winter at the moment!

For an all round kit I can recommend Alienocean, as that is what I started with. Not sure how much postage would be. I think if you fit any kit you need to be prepared for a few challenges.

If you check my thread on my first EBike build using this kit it may help give you an idea of what's involved.

Regards

Jerry

 

[NRG]

I've been tinkering again, this time with the controller. I'm toying with the idea of junking the direct drive Conhis motor and controller and going with either a Bafang front 250W motor or a powerful rear mounted Puma motor from Frank.

Whilst I'm contemplating which way to go I thought I'd do a little research and see if the current controller can be tweaked....

After a bit of a look around the internet I found some instructions on how to up the current delivery of the controller. I researched the FETs used in the controller and found they are good for over 75Amp, so, I applied this tweak...

The controller current delivery is governed by shunt resistor links and apparently by improving their conductivity it allows for more current to flow. In fact I'd already seen how this works in the ES thread about tweaking Meanwell power supplies but I had not realized the same method can be used in controllers to raise the current.

These shunts are actually just bits of heavy duty wire with very small 'nicks' taken out of them to increase their resistance at high current flow. The instructions I found essentially showed that by improving the solder connections on the board around these shunts would up the current delivery...and if you wanted to go mad covering them in solder would drastically up the current....and also blow the FETs up as well I would think!


Anyhow I took it slowly and just improved the solder joints by adding some more silver loaded solder to the base of the links on both sides of the board and also to build a small solder ramp up on one side of the links to improve the connection. You can see the underside of the PCB below where I've built up the tracks...it was already similar to this but I've added more solder. Similar on the component side you can see the shunts and also the small solder ramps I added, you may also just be able to make out the 'nicks' in the links.

Well, it worked....I did not want to go mad and by luck the current delivery has risen by 3Amp to 33amp, a nice round 10% gain...which is good because my wiring, cct breaker and connections are all rated to 30 amp continuous!

I made a quick trip around the block and while top speed seems unaffected take of from rest seems a little perkier. Next I might try and up the voltage by a bit as there's nothing I can see in the controller that says it would not take 36v...maybe!

 

[ELECTRIC AVENUES]

Hi there, could you please post a basic schematic of how to connect these Turnigy packs in series and then in parallel......I also like your set up, it's very tight, all round. Well done.