New 11 speed Shimano Hub Gear
- Thread starter flecc
- Start date
Carbon Matrix
So far from making the bike more likely to collapse Carbon Matrix has the opposite effect.
It is expensive however so we will only be able to use it on our luxury models i.e. the XC Tourer and the 1006 planned for early 2011.
All the best
David
Yes it is Carbon Matrix which is a thinner aluminium frame which has carbon bonded to it with a 3M ceramic bonding system, all very clever. It is used on motor cycle racing wheels, in F1 and the aircraft industry. It not only looks amazing it reduces the weight of the frame by 25% whilst improving the tensile strength / rigidity by 30%. Carbon Matrix also gives us the ability to mould some nice touches onto the bike.
So far from making the bike more likely to collapse Carbon Matrix has the opposite effect.
It is expensive however so we will only be able to use it on our luxury models i.e. the XC Tourer and the 1006 planned for early 2011.
All the best
David
Going back to the original thread subject, is there any reason you couldn't have a 5 speed hub with the spread of an 11 speed?
I know you can run through gears straight from 1 to 4 and so on but it doesn't feel right and the missing gears would save a bit of weight.
I know you can run through gears straight from 1 to 4 and so on but it doesn't feel right and the missing gears would save a bit of weight.
Multi speed hubs over three gears often use compounding, transfering the drive through more than one epicyclic to achieve more than three gears. That restricts the gaps between gears, and the overall hub diameter also restricts by preventing cogs large enough for large ratio changes.
A further design restriction is the desirability of the gear spacings being even. Large variations in the gaps between gears feels wrong and disrupts cadence.
The 250% SRAM P5 five speed hub has the widest spread percentage per gear, but the spacings aren't very even.
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Shimano have announced that they are looking at entering the e-bike electrical component field but it's a long way off at present.
Odd though it might seem, it's extremely difficult to have both motor and multi-gears in a hub, especially with the present form of epicyclic gears. It's probable that the only practical way would be a steel hub shell with an offset motor and conventional gearbox arrangement, large, clumsy and heavy.
SRAM tried a hub motor with their 5 speed hub, the SRAM Sparc unit, and that follows the shell arrangement. However, to keep the size within bounds it used two small noisy motors and they don't drive through the gears, so all a bit pointless. Unsurprisingly it's been a flop in the market.
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Hub Motor with Internal 3 Speed
Bionx and SRAM are going to do a 3 speed Internally Geared Hub/hub motor for Trek in Germany. This looks like a good thing for city bikes in flatter places.
Bike Europe - News: BionX Launches Hub Motor with Integrated 3-speed
Bionx and SRAM are going to do a 3 speed Internally Geared Hub/hub motor for Trek in Germany. This looks like a good thing for city bikes in flatter places.
Bike Europe - News: BionX Launches Hub Motor with Integrated 3-speed
Just to give you my experiences. I have a Rohloff on my recumbent bike which also has an eZee hub on the front and I have to say that having all those gears is pretty pointless as I only use the top 2 and one of the lower ones just to move off. As soon as I'm moving I just change up to top and balance my input with the hub. On hills I find the motor (or battery?) struggles and I have to pedal more so drop a gear or 2. I only got the Rohloff because I can have the option of removing the hub wheel and putting the original one back on et voila, back to normal bike.
On my normal geared mountain bike I run a 48V hub and I only use 2 gears - top at the back a alternate between the 2 largest on the front crank.
So in summary 2 or 3 gears seem to be enough for a hub drive bike.
I lave the idea that Shimano are doing an 11 speed as the Rohloff is so expensive - where do you get then for £600? - mine cost £1000 last year!
Note that I read that Rohloff are producing a lighter version of their current hub. This will have a slightly wider range but still 14 speed but will not be quite as strong as the current touring spec.
Once you've had a hub gear it's actually quite difficult to get used to normal gears. I'm a big fan.
On my normal geared mountain bike I run a 48V hub and I only use 2 gears - top at the back a alternate between the 2 largest on the front crank.
So in summary 2 or 3 gears seem to be enough for a hub drive bike.
I lave the idea that Shimano are doing an 11 speed as the Rohloff is so expensive - where do you get then for £600? - mine cost £1000 last year!
Note that I read that Rohloff are producing a lighter version of their current hub. This will have a slightly wider range but still 14 speed but will not be quite as strong as the current touring spec.
Once you've had a hub gear it's actually quite difficult to get used to normal gears. I'm a big fan.
My 6-speed Brompton is in fact 3 hub gears (SRAM) coupled with an ingenious 2x sprocket rear derailleur that works without having to pedal. It's a very efficient combo, especially with the latest BWR (Brompton Wide Range) geared hub.
++Dan
I couldn't imagine losing half my 7 gears, the 200% range is not enough as it is with me riding in top gear on the flat. You have a 48V hub, I assume this is a powerful one and could be why you don't use the gears.
I agree that most hub motors are powerful enough for only a two or three gears to be enough for many circumstances, but in areas with really steep hills a wider range is needed. The two top gears won't cope with 20% or steeper hills with legal hub motors, most riders needing to drop a few more gears then as the motor loses power with reducing road speed.
About £600 was the last I heard a year or so ago, £1000 seems a crazy increase, especially within the EU area where exchange rate changes have had little internal effect.
I'm also a hub gear fan, but your calling derailleurs "normal" gears amused me.
It was hub gears that were the normal and only ones originally, derailleurs being the newcomers, viewed with great suspicion for quite a while..
My first bike was an 'Eddy Merx' 5 speed racer when I was 11 years old (1975) and I remember they went to 10 speed then ATB (mountain bikes) came along with even more gears. Never came across a hub gear until reading about all these electric bikes. I need to get out more. I'll ask my dad about his bikes when I next see him.
Regarding my motor then it's an eZee hub being run at 48v so yes it does produce decent power (1200W) at peak and so I think you are right, this is probably why I only use 2 gears.
I bought an ezee Liv (off ebay) for my dad and it runs 36V and feels relatively slow but that only has a 3 speed hub but I found that I only ever stayed in top.
Regarding my motor then it's an eZee hub being run at 48v so yes it does produce decent power (1200W) at peak and so I think you are right, this is probably why I only use 2 gears.
I bought an ezee Liv (off ebay) for my dad and it runs 36V and feels relatively slow but that only has a 3 speed hub but I found that I only ever stayed in top.
I was in the trade at the start of the 1950s when the first derailleurs began to arrive on the market, with a 4 or 5 gear rear cluster. The Sturmey Archer 3 speed hub gear had ruled alone until then, originally patented in 1902 and on sale by 1904, with a 4 speed hub also available at about the time of the derailleur introduction in the '50s.
The multi chainring front derailleur came much later and I don't even remember when they first appeared.
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Alfine 11
We have just had an answer from Shimano the samples are not available until August this year, we are going to upgrade our XC tourer to 11 speed Alfine.
The retail price is set to be around the £300 mark.
As soon as we have one on trial I will report.
Best regards
David
We have just had an answer from Shimano the samples are not available until August this year, we are going to upgrade our XC tourer to 11 speed Alfine.
The retail price is set to be around the £300 mark.
As soon as we have one on trial I will report.
Best regards
David
The XC tourer is just the sort of bike that I would consider buying as I have always wanted to go touring round the world. The lightweight carbon frame and hub gear are spot on. Well done Wisper. I'll plan my trip for next year then.
PS The round the globe articles talk about taking 3 batteries, do they mount on the bike in a special place? maybe connected in parallel? or are they just carried as extra luggage?
PS The round the globe articles talk about taking 3 batteries, do they mount on the bike in a special place? maybe connected in parallel? or are they just carried as extra luggage?
Batteries
Hi
The XC is not really any lighter as the Alfine gearbox is heavier and equipment level is higher. The lighter frame just goes some way to balancing the bike out. It also adds rigidity and strength.
Guim is traveling with only two batteries and that seems ample. He carries the extra battery in a trailer along with clothing water etc. Have a look at www.electricbicyleworldtour.com to see images.
Best regards
David
Hi
The XC is not really any lighter as the Alfine gearbox is heavier and equipment level is higher. The lighter frame just goes some way to balancing the bike out. It also adds rigidity and strength.
Guim is traveling with only two batteries and that seems ample. He carries the extra battery in a trailer along with clothing water etc. Have a look at www.electricbicyleworldtour.com to see images.
Best regards
David
A fast bike for all you hill people
I have the 8 speed hub. I have lost the low gears by fitting a 16 cog to get speed. Not a trick you can do if you have lots of steep hills. Now the 11 speed hub, you can get over the 16mph limit by fitting a 16 cog and still have the low gears.
I have the 8 speed hub. I have lost the low gears by fitting a 16 cog to get speed. Not a trick you can do if you have lots of steep hills. Now the 11 speed hub, you can get over the 16mph limit by fitting a 16 cog and still have the low gears.
Exactly my thoughts. Not being a guru, what would a bike shop likely charge to replace my 8 speed Shimano on Kalkhoff Tasman with one of these?
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