new aliens

[tonio]

Ive just loooked at the two new bikes at alienocean. - AlienOcean Home My son has a Lynx which has proved 100% reliable {4mths old},strong motor, and gets me over 15mls at 14st.
The 'Pulsar' foldup looks a good bike but is a bit too stepthru for my taste .The 'Neutron star' is a great looking custom 48v 800watt chopper.
Why dont they scrap the 15mph rule, not everyone is light /fit enough to pedal 20-25mph but some can.Perhaps its discrimination against the overweight or disabled (i know its the oil companies and h.m tax revenues}
Really i think if government were serious about green transport the ebike/pedelec would get the investment it deserves and rush hour congestion would be greatly reduced. I wonder if Usain Bolt was a cyclist what speed would he get up to?and if it was an ebike?
Anyway heres a suggestion; limit ebike to 25mph under power and max 15mph cycle paths. Develop them until reliabilty is that of the car and then the govt can say they are serious about tackling traffic problems and polution. Im not anticar, just want a better ebike alternative.

 

[Mussels]

Ive just loooked at the two new bikes at alienocean. - AlienOcean Home My son has a Lynx which has proved 100% reliable {4mths old},strong motor, and gets me over 15mls at 14st.
The 'Pulsar' foldup looks a good bike but is a bit too stepthru for my taste .The 'Neutron star' is a great looking custom 48v 800watt chopper.
Why dont they scrap the 15mph rule, not everyone is light /fit enough to pedal 20-25mph but some can.Perhaps its discrimination against the overweight or disabled (i know its the oil companies and h.m tax revenues}
Really i think if government were serious about green transport the ebike/pedelec would get the investment it deserves and rush hour congestion would be greatly reduced. I wonder if Usain Bolt was a cyclist what speed would he get up to?and if it was an ebike?
Anyway heres a suggestion; limit ebike to 25mph under power and max 15mph cycle paths. Develop them until reliabilty is that of the car and then the govt can say they are serious about tackling traffic problems and polution. Im not anticar, just want a better ebike alternative.

It sounds more like you want a motorbike, there are cheap electric scooters that meet your criteria but with higher speed comes a different set of rules as is to be expected.

 

[flecc]

There are classes giving either more power, or more speed, or both, so there is no bar on going faster than 15 mph under power.

However the higher powers and/or speeds bring dangers that require insurance against third party risks, which in turn means vehicle registration and some other safety measures.

The standard e-bike without registration and insurance is very unlikely to ever be permitted more than 15 mph and 250 watts in the EU. The regulations elsewhere in the world are mostly just as strict and often more so, China 12 mph, Australia 200 watts and compulsory helmets for example. Even in the USA some States have regulations that are much stricter than Federal law and overrule it, and one area has a total ban on e-bikes. Likewise, there are some Chinese cities and areas where e-bikes are totally banned.

So all in all we don't do too badly, our e-bikes are after all electric assist bikes, not electric bikes.
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[Alex728]

The regulations elsewhere in the world are mostly just as strict and often more so, China 12 mph, Australia 200 watts and compulsory helmets for example. Even in the USA some States have regulations that are much stricter than Federal law and overrule it, and one area has a total ban on e-bikes. Likewise, there are some Chinese cities and areas where e-bikes are totally banned.

So all in all we don't do too badly, our e-bikes are after all electric assist bikes, not electric bikes.
.

Although not quite "China", I found a while back article from the New Straits times of Singapore which explained the rationale between farly recent legisation (unfortunately I have mislaid this). Contrary to popular misconception of this country, Singapore initially adopted a "laissez-faire" approach to e-bikes, not wanting to stifle business and innovation (I do wonder if the fact one of their own citizens is a pioneer in high power e-bikes may have had a factor in this ).

Unfortunately the streets were allegedly then filled with high power Chinese e-bikes/mopeds, leading to a number of injury RTC's particularly against pedestrians.

Subsequent to this the Land Transport Authority (equivalent to DfT/VOSA here) introduced the 200W limits (and also banned outright all petrol powered assisted bicycles like the kind flecc mentioned from his youth, which had also made a resurgence. The petrol ones were also banned on ecological grounds).

The laws in Malaysia (where my ancestors are from and many releatives still live) are unclear, some of my relatives said e-bikes are not officially allowed, although some have been spotted in the country. I suspect the laws will end up being similar to Singapore. Helmets are not compulsory in Malaysia but highly encouraged, when an uncle recently came to England he was surprised to see so many cyclists not wearing helmets!

 

[Sir_Bob]

It is important to think of safety i think there is a reason that we have to go 15 kph those lycras that do 25kph have been cycling for years and they now what they are doing to put someone normal with no experience on a bike that can do 25mph is dangerus i struggled to keep control at 15kph and sometimes drivers look at someone like me and just think i am going slow they dont realise the speed i travel at and sometimes just pull out

thx

Bob

 

[frank9755]

to put someone normal with no experience on a bike that can do 25mph is dangerus i struggled to keep control at 15kph and sometimes drivers look at someone like me and just think i am going slow they dont realise the speed i travel at and sometimes just pull out

Well put Bob - riding on my kit bike which can do 20+ mph convinced me that they are not a good idea.

People react in a very different way to an e-biker going at 20 mph, looking very comfortable and not expending lots of effort, and a fast cyclist who looks like he is pedalling hard. Cars and pedestrians underestimated the speed I was doing and pulled or stepped out in front of me too frequently for comfort.

 

[tonio]

I dont want a motorbike.What i would like would legal power assist up to 25m.p.h. A 'good'motorbike will do 200 mph and anything over 70 is illegal,therefore the extra capability of 130mph is technically illegal as also with cars.The abilty to go over the 70 limit can help when say overtaking on a motorway when its neccessary by afew extra m.ph for a short period but the rest of the power is unjustified. Kids are driving 750cc quads out there uninsured which is insane and motorbikes without helmets. How many ebikes can occasionally go over 15mph now? and the ability to go 20mph could help get you out of trouble as in say situations at roundabouts where the traffic is hostile to cyclists in general.My suggestion was for the ebike to be explored as real alternative transport.Perhaps the 15mph limit should go at 16yrs and of course the rider would have to be then competent at the higher limit of 25 or even 20mph. Id mentioned Usain Bolt as he ran around 29mph which is incredible but still only human power to put the 15mph limit in perspective.

 

[Straylight]

need for speed

I have to say that I'm somewhat divided on this, part of me thinks that human beings should be intelligent enough to use powerful vehicles responsibly, and so physical restrictions ought to be irrelavant in an enlightened society. On the other hand I've seen too many prats getting throttle happy for me to be that trusting in human nature, and would love to see all cars & motorbikes speed restricted to 70mph. Indeed I find the reality that a trained/qualified car driver can't guage the speed of a bicycle prety disturbing considering what they are in charge of.

I think the truth though is that as bipiedal land mamals we are simply not designed to percieve the world flashing by at high speed with enough clarity, which I suppose is what the highway code was developed to compensate for. Unfortunately, the rules of the road are not enforced with enough rigidity for the average driver to take them seriously, so physical limitations are the simplest form of enforcement for all vehichles. Perhaps though, such limits need a more thought out set of levels, and hat the top speed for ebikes needs to be more in keeping with the maximum speed road cyclists can attain unnasisted.

 

[flecc]

What i would like would legal power assist up to 25m.p.h.

As said, you can, but you must have third party insurance which means registration, since a powered 25 mph vehicle weighing up to 40 kilos plus rider can do a lot of damage to someone. There are plenty of idiots out there who would abuse this facility if given a free rein.

How many ebikes can occasionally go over 15mph now?

All those which rely on battery voltage to set their maximum speed. For example an eZee Quando runs to about 17 mph when the battery has just been charged (18 hot off the charger), dropping to 16 mph as the charge is half used and eventually ending up at 14.5 mph as it nears the end of charge. One or two e-bikes can be derestricted to do around 18 mph or a bit more most of the time.

Perhaps the 15mph limit should go at 16yrs and of course the rider would have to be then competent at the higher limit of 25 or even 20mph.

But if competence has to be proved, it means registration of the vehicle so that riders can be identified, and you can already do that now. The present law is very efficient really, since fit riders can already ride their e-bikes to 20 or 25 mph if they are suitable types like the Cytronex. Since fitness of body and mind tend to have a relationship that system works to indicate some degree of competence for speed.

Id mentioned Usain Bolt as he ran around 29mph which is incredible but still only human power to put the 15mph limit in perspective.

His average over the 100 metres is a bit over 23.3 mph. The average moderately fit male in their first two or three adult decades can run at up to 18 mph for a very short period, those participating in sports which include some running like football or rugby can often reach 20 mph, so the difference to the super athletes isn't so huge.

The difference from e-bikes is that the mind is controlling and co-ordinatiing the muscle power with the efficiency born of millions of years of evolution. Any control of a vehicle is very inferior to that, as shown by the numbers of vehicle occupants ending up in hospitals and morgues compared to those who were injured when running.
.

 

[the_killjoy]

Much as I would like the 15mph raised to 25 mph I would be the first to achnowledge that the brakes on most 'heavy' ebikes are not really up to the task at that speed in heavy traffic ~ hence the need for a seperate class of vehicle with all the red tape and nausea that implies.

 

[Mussels]

Much as I would like the 15mph raised to 25 mph I would be the first to achnowledge that the brakes on most 'heavy' ebikes are not really up to the task at that speed in heavy traffic ~ hence the need for a seperate class of vehicle with all the red tape and nausea that implies.

I think they would all have to be hydraulic and then of course they will need checking so require an MOT.

 

[Sir_Bob]

Hey tonion the point is it is the drivers on the road are the danger they do not now how fast we are going because they assume it is slow if they saw usain bolt running along the road in his lycra they would realise he is going fast when they see me in my jeans and cardigan they think look at the silly fat man he will be slow this is the problem

i dont know where you see kids riding 750cc quads or kids on motorbikes with no helmets i dont ever see this on the public road

 

[tonio]

Ok,Ok,Ok the suggestion is rejected for various valid reasons. While i was walking with my daughter we were nearly knocked over by two lads on motorbikes on a canal towpath last week.There are still kids who drive quads on roads no helmets and obviously uninsured on housing estates though its getting thankfully less a sight where i live. The eight yr old i saw on the 750 quad was about 4yrs ago so very rare indeed,but not so rare as one of darwins missing links

 

[flecc]

Well Tonio, your suggestion isn't dead yet!

Latest news is that the European industry is meeting to discuss type approval matters, including the question of higher speeds for e-bikes and the like. If you read the article on the link below, you'll see all the details:

Bike Europe
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[tonio]

Thanks for that link Flecc, thats very interesting and worth following by all.
I hope they dont end up passing more restrictions, but realise the ebikes potential.
Im very new to ebike/pedelecs, (about 4mths} but would like to see them developed into something widely used and to be more reliable.Your Q bike creation qbikeintro and the trailer pics especially interested me in this subject.
I hope the manufacturers also point out the health benefits and push the 'green' qualities of electric bicycles. {battery prices feel like a green tax already}

 

[The Maestro]

Cool, good to see someone flauting the 'law' in such a blatant way! Personally I'd go on the side of caution though and make a fast bike that looks like a granny bike. I wouldn't ride his Neutron Star because its too obvious. Love the bike though.