New battery technology. If or When?

[flecc]

That's not quite true, flecc. I have a couple of their lithium titanate batteries that can be charges in minutes. The charge terminals are bigger than the discharge ones. The charge goes directly to the cells, bypassing the BMS. I'm not sure how that works. The downside is low specific capacity, though you get effectively infinite life out of the battery as long as the BMS doesn't go to sleep.

True enough, though their small capacity to size is a problem, so they only appeared on one e-bike named as SCiB, a Schwinn model where they specified a half hour full charge.
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[Woosh]

we have already built, and tested on an e-scooter, the first prototype 1.2 kWh Li-S battery system using Long Life 10 Ah cells..

they forgot to mention that their system weighs 60% less than a lead acid battery. (you can wiki this).
They should have compared their product(s) against widely available current Lithium ion cells like 18650-3500mAH cells in the Chinese shops.

 

[flecc]

Well, apparently, Li-S for e-bikes has already been developed (even if not quite yet in the market):

"The first Li-S battery was developed for electric bikes. It is a 360 Wh system weighing only 2kg... OXIS has entered the electric scooter segment and target to introduce Li-S batteries into the Chinese market in the autumn of 2017. In cooperation with our BMS partner Lithium Balance, we have already built, and tested on an e-scooter, the first prototype 1.2 kWh Li-S battery system using Long Life 10 Ah cells.... The next stage is to build a second prototype using an improved Long Life chemistry (up to 20Ah cell) which will increase battery capacity at a reduced weight and, crucially, boost the range of the electric scooters."

See https://oxisenergy.com/applications/ then choose "Electric Vehicles".

The CEO of Oxis Energy is one of the contributors in the Radio 4 programme on batteries above.

Wisper investigated adopting these a year or two ago but seemed to drop the idea.
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[Woosh]

I had thought of that or more likely a mechanical flywheel arrangement with generator would be possibly be a more economical store. Electro Chemical storage is expensive in any event and say 100kwr of flywheel energy would work... Particularly if it were housed in the underground cisterns that petrol stations currently use. .. safety concerns

you only need a charge/discharge of 3C to recharge a battery in 20 minutes from another battery.
This can easily be done with current Li-ion batteries whereas to build a 200KW generator is considerably more expensive than the cost of a spare car battery.

 

[Deleted member 4366]

True enough, though their small capacity to size is a problem, so they only appeared on one e-bike named as SCiB, a Schwinn model where they specified a half hour full charge.
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The 30 minute charge is with the 10 amp supplied charger using separate low-power charge terminals. A 200 amp charger would probably be more expensive than the bike, but you could use one if you could find one. The battery was designed to be removed and fast-charged in a special docking station using the special heavy duty charge terminals. Maybe if you had a fleet of their bikes for pizza delivery, the docking station would be cost-effective.

This battery is different from normal ones in that it has three sets of terminals - discharge, fast slow charge (10A) and fast charge (100A plus)

 

[flecc]

The 30 minute charge is with the 10 amp supplied charger using separate low-power charge terminals. A 200 amp charger would probably be more expensive than the bike, but you could use one if you could find one. The battery was designed to be removed and fast-charged in a special docking station using the special heavy duty charge terminals. Maybe if you had a fleet of their bikes for pizza delivery, the docking station would be cost-effective.

This battery is different from normal ones in that it has three sets of terminals - discharge, fast slow charge (10A) and fast charge (100A plus)

My main point about Toshiba's fast charge research failure I hadn't made clear, it's always been about fast charge in minutes for cars. They were far sighted enough to foresee the need more than a decade ago and that was where they directed all the research. The nearest they've got is SCiB, but it's far too bulky compared to the alternatives used at present. I only know of the one Schwinn bike ever using them on the road, and they soon dropped it.
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