New Bikes Anyone?

[Caph]

I took my Galileo along to Powered Bicycles this weekend for Hamant to have a look at. It's got a problem with the frame (is this contagious at the moment?!) which he's going to sort out for me. While I was there he let me have a go on a couple of his bikes so I thought I'd share my experiences.

I first had a test ride on the Barracuda which is basically a hard tailed version of my Galileo with hydraulic brakes and I'm not exagerating when I say you could stop on a sixpence with those babies. It was my first experience of a throttle control (mine is pedelec only) and I was impressed with how easy it was to use. I noticed that the thumb throttle gives a boost even when the motor is already engaged by the pedal sensor, is that normal?

Next up was the City Runner which is a smallish step-through with no gears and a 36V battery. At first I was sceptical, I mean, a bike with no gears? But it dawned on me almost immediately that you're not meant to be pedalling on this bike, you're meant to be motoring and boy does this thing move! I guess it's the combination of small, light bike and 36V that make this seem so powerful. I did try pedalling with the motor off for a bit and although it was a relatively sedate affair it was very easy to pedal. It seems to be designed to take a lot of weight with a large sturdy rear rack (I believe you can also add a front carrier). One thing I noticed was that the because you ride in an upright position you don't have any weight on your wrists which means potholes don't cause problems, also the sprung seat made for a surprisingly smooth ride (as Flecc pointed out to me in another thread!). I don't think I'll be switching to a step-through but I was definitely impressed with this bike.

I then tried out the Lynx 3. I've always thought of folders as delicate wobbly bikes but this one seemed larger than most and more sturdy. It's definitely a head turner with its all silver frame. It's also got a 36V battery and seemed more like a regular bike to me with its 6 speeds although you had to be fairly quick to get through the gears because this bike is a quick mover too. I think I'm beginning to understand the difference between the 36V and the 24V bikes now.

Finally I tried out a prototype of a new bike that is still in the design stages. It has a rear rack mounted battery (or batteries, it will be able to take more than one depending on rider requirements) and was the quickest of the three. I'll be interested to see how this one finally turns out.

All in all I had a blast but I definitely get the feeling that these are exciting times for electric bikes what with Powered Bicycles new offerings along with the likes of the new Infineum, the new X series, the Cytronex etc, or am I just getting carried away?

 

[Caph]

Wow, not one reply, I beginning to think I've been excommunicated!

I thought at least one person would be able to answer my question about throttle control. Basically what I'm asking is, does pedal assist normally only drive the motor at a reduced rate (requiring use of the throttle to reach full power)? My bike is pedal assist only with no throttle so I have no experience of throttles.

 

[flecc]

Hi Caph. I was inclined to post a thanks for the report, but I post so much in here I sometimes hang back to let others get in as well (!), and this was one of those occasions.

Many bikes have the throttle acting even in pedelec mode, my eZee bikes having the full throttle operation either way. If I switch to pedelec, there's no power until I open the throttle.
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[Mussels]

Wow, not one reply, I beginning to think I've been excommunicated!

I thought at least one person would be able to answer my question about throttle control. Basically what I'm asking is, does pedal assist normally only drive the motor at a reduced rate (requiring use of the throttle to reach full power)? My bike is pedal assist only with no throttle so I have no experience of throttles.

The answer is whatever the designer of your controller wanted it to be. The Wisper gives reduced power on pedelec but I would expect a non throttle bike like the Panasonic motors give full power through the pedelec.

 

[flecc]

I would expect a non throttle bike like the Panasonic motors give full power through the pedeled.

Yes they can, but it's directly proportional to the rider input. If the rider puts in 200 watts, the bike matches it with another 200 watts if in standard mode.

If in High Power mode, a rider's 200 watts will be matched with 265 watts from the motor.

To get the maximum of 422 watts of motor power, the rider needs to input 318 watts in high power mode.
.

 

[Caph]

The answer is whatever the designer of your controller wanted it to be. The Wisper gives reduced power on pedelec but I would expect a non throttle bike like the Panasonic motors give full power through the pedeled.

So when you're in pedelec mode on the Wisper, can you still use the throttle to boost it up to maximum power as you are pedalling? And if you can, is it much of a boost? And does pedelec mode drop off before 15mph requiring you to use throttle to achieve 15mph?

 

[Caph]

Hi Caph. I was inclined to post a thanks for the report, but I post so much in here I sometimes hang back to let others get in as well (!), and this was one of those occasions.

Many bikes have the throttle acting even in pedelec mode, my eZee bikes having the full throttle operation either way. If I switch to pedelec, there's no power until I open the throttle.
.

Is the Ezee similar to the Wisper in that pedal operated mode offers reduced power and requires throttle to acheive max power?

 

[JohnInStockie]

Yes they can, but it's directly proportional to the rider input. If the rider puts in 200 watts, the bike matches it with another 200 watts if in standard mode.

If in High Power mode, a rider's 200 watts will be matched with 265 watts from the motor.

To get the maximum of 422 watts of motor power, the rider needs to input 318 watts in high power mode.
.

At what cadence though Flecc?

 

[flecc]

Is the Ezee similar to the Wisper in that pedal operated mode offers reduced power and requires throttle to acheive max power?

No, it's the same in either mode, the throttle operates from zero to full power. All the pedelec switch does is not allow the throttle to give power without pedalling.
.

 

[flecc]

At what cadence though Flecc?

That's any cadence up to 40 rpm John. After that the power gets scaled down in four steps, finished at 65 cadence.

The system is very complex as you know, so it can be difficult to assess the power for any given circumstance with the variables of cadence and rider power input.
.

 

[JohnInStockie]

That's any cadence up to 40 rpm John. After that the power gets scaled down in four steps, finished at 65 cadence.

The system is very complex as you know, so it can be difficult to assess the power for any given circumstance with the variables of cadence and rider power input.
.

Thanks, I am just trying to think of a situation where I would be doing less than 41 cadence, and inputting over 300 watts of power with dropping a gear .....I cant really envisage one TBH.

John

 

[Caph]

No, it's the same in either mode, the throttle operates from zero to full power. All the pedelec switch does is not allow the throttle to give power without pedalling.
.

I think I get it. So what you're saying is that the Ezee doesn't have a pedal only motor mode? It's throttle only. Is that right?

 

[flecc]

Yes it's throttle only, the pedelec switch mode just cutting the power if the pedals aren't turning.
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[flecc]

Thanks, I am just trying to think of a situation where I would be doing less than 41 cadence, and inputting over 300 watts of power with dropping a gear .....I cant really envisage one TBH.

John

I'm sure you could briefly John. I managed it once on the Agattu as you'll see from this extract from my Kalkhoff test report. The slightly higher than 422 watts motor maximum quoted was because the battery was freshly charged and at full voltage:

I did a sprint up the hill (1 in 7) in 6th gear High Power mode, standing on the pedals and giving it my maximum. It's only short, taking about 20 seconds, but the maintained speed was 13 mph (20.8 kph). On this bike with my weight and the other factors allowed for, that needed 798 watts, and at the 1.3 assist ratio if the motor was topping out at it's assumed 436 watts peak output, I was left with the remainder of at least 362 watts over those few seconds.

In fact the motor wouldn't have been reaching that much at that cadence so my contribution was appreciably higher. We can all output huge amounts for a few seconds. I was 71 at the time, but I wouldn't want to do too much of that, brief though it was.
.

 

[Wisper Bikes]

Throttle

So when you're in pedelec mode on the Wisper, can you still use the throttle to boost it up to maximum power as you are pedaling? And if you can, is it much of a boost? And does pedelec mode drop off before 15mph requiring you to use throttle to achieve 15mph?

Hi Caph

The Wisper has two power settings, High and Low, High introduces 80% power as soon as the pedelec sensor detects the pedals or being turned and Low delivers 20%.

The throttle is completely independent to the High and Low settings and can be used from stand still to maximum speed without ever turning the pedals.

The throttle can also be used to increase the High or Low setting to maximum whilst pedaling.

This system gives you total control over the power you need to cycle comfortably it does not rely on the bike trying to decide how much help you need.

Best regards David