New Bosch high performance motor unit.

[Lakeland]

You're probably not going to get 50 miles with a 400Wh Bosch battery. You will get more than 50 miles with a 15Ah or 17Ah battery on something like the Kalkhoff Agattu or Pro Connect Impulse.

PS There's a whopping 70 Nm torque on the Impulse 2.0 centre drive models.

Kalkhoff bikes are also properly-equipped with front and rear lights, Magura hydraulic brakes, mudguards, luggage rack and you can charge the battery on or off the bike, which isn't possible with the older Bosch batteries. Kalkhoff Impulse batteries have a lifetime of 1,100 charge cycles before you're down to 60% remaining capacity, rather than 500 charge cycles you can expect with the Bosch batteries.

We do a Pro Connect Bosch Performance model as well, which is nice and well-priced with the 400Wh battery, but it's not one we'd recommend for maximising range.

Hi Tim,
So how much torque is there on the original impulse for the agattu or the pro connect please?

 

[Deleted member 4366]

If you want totally impartial advice, send a PM to 103Alex1. He has an Agattu and a powerful hub-motored bike. His Aggatu has been slightly modified to get more power and speed at no cost and almost no work. This is where the Kakhoff Impulse drive gets an advantage over Bosch. He will give you the details if you ask nicely and promise not to pass on the secret. I've already made the promise. That's why I can't tell you directly.

 

[Lakeland]

I'm glad you pointed that one out, I'd not thought to zoom in on the 2014 BS10 XT until this evening, looks gorgeous doesn't it? If only it had a 17Ah battery, 70Nm and a proper electromechanical Shift Assist like its Impulse II equivalent:

http://www.50cycles.com/electric-bikes/endeavour-sport-fast/endeavour_impulse_s10_xt.html

which is confusingly £100 cheaper - how do they do that?

The page for the kalkhoff bs10xt endeavour says in the description that it has a 612 Wh Lithium tri-metal battery. the tech specs are correct tho.

If you want totally impartial advice, send a PM to 103Alex1. He has an Agattu and a powerful hub-motored bike. His Aggatu has been slightly modified to get more power and speed at no cost and almost no work. This is where the Kakhoff Impulse drive gets an advantage over Bosch. He will give you the details if you ask nicely and promise not to pass on the secret. I've already made the promise. That's why I can't tell you directly.

Thanks D8veh, i have done just that. :->

 

[Tim]

The page for the kalkhoff bs10xt endeavour says in the description that it has a 612 Wh Lithium tri-metal battery. the tech specs are correct tho.

Thank you, I've changed that now!

 

[RobF]

Given that Bosch turn the assist wick down for hub gears, I wonder what the Alfine 11 will make of the claimed 70nm of torque on Kalkhoff's Impulse 2 system.

 

[Deleted member 4366]

Given that Bosch turn the assist wick down for hub gears, I wonder what the Alfine 11 will make of the claimed 70nm of torque on Kalkhoff's Impulse 2 system.

Nobody has reported any problems on this forum so far!

 

[RobF]

Nobody has reported any problems on this forum so far!

And if someone did, the post might not last long.

 

[Lakeland]

Given that Bosch turn the assist wick down for hub gears, I wonder what the Alfine 11 will make of the claimed 70nm of torque on Kalkhoff's Impulse 2 system.

Does this page seem to state that the new bosh motor has 70Nm torque?

http://www.elektrofahrrad24.de/news_bosch-praesentiert-neue-e-bike-motorengeneration-im-jahr-2014-12189

"Also new is that the drive is about the size significantly smaller drive sprocket 15 is held to a maximum of 24 teeth.There is currently run test the durability of the components, but it is to be expected that the new Bosch engine can develop up to 70 nM force."

 

[flecc]

Given that Bosch turn the assist wick down for hub gears, I wonder what the Alfine 11 will make of the claimed 70nm of torque on Kalkhoff's Impulse 2 system.

The Impulse unit tackles this problem a different way by automatically cutting power momentarily for each gear change. Given that the torque problems with hub gears are with gear change damage, that should work ok. See under "Shift Assist" on this link.

However, there will still be the problem of the higher transmission wear if all that torque is used, but that's true whatever the gear system. Will my post be removed due to that comment? No, of course not.

 

[flecc]

Does this page seem to state that the new bosh motor has 70Nm torque?

http://www.elektrofahrrad24.de/news_bosch-praesentiert-neue-e-bike-motorengeneration-im-jahr-2014-12189

"Also new is that the drive is about the size significantly smaller drive sprocket 15 is held to a maximum of 24 teeth.There is currently run test the durability of the components, but it is to be expected that the new Bosch engine can develop up to 70 nM force."

Yes, but they are apparently not supplied that way when for use in bikes with hub gears.

 

[Lakeland]

I don't see 70Nm here listed tho:

Impulse 2.0 & Bosch Electric Bike Systems Compared
2014 Bosch 2014 Impulse 2.0
Motor power (Watts)250 W & 350 W250 W & 350 W
Maximum torque48 Nm - 60 Nm 70 Nm
Maximum battery capacity400 Wh (36V 11Ah) 612 Wh (36V 17Ah)
Charge cycles (battery lifetime)500 1100
Gear shift detection / Shift AssistDerailleur only Derailleur & hub
Multifunction LCD with remoteYes Yes
Rear safety light
(brightens when braking)No Yes
Motor weight"less than 4kg" 3.8kg

 

[RobF]

With the previous system, Bosch quoted max assist with derailleur gears as 250 per cent, and max assist with hub hears as 200 per cent.

I'm not sure exactly what that means, but the lower assist level presumably gives less torque.

 

[Lakeland]

I thought with hub gears on a bosch you got 48Nm and upto 60Nm with derailleurs?

 

[Martin@e-bikeshop]

Hi Guys,

All of the answers here- http://www.e-bikeshop.co.uk/blog/post/so-whats-different-on-the-new-2014-bosch-ebike-system/

Regards
Martin

 

[Croxden]

I had the choice of motors and went for the performance version. What is the point of having more torque offered if it is being de-tuned for hub gears?

 

[flecc]

I had the choice of motors and went for the performance version. What is the point of having more torque offered if it is being de-tuned for hub gears?

Shimano have strict torque limits specified for their hub gears to be sold with warranty. I guess that's why Bosch feel it necessary to detune for them. Those wanting higher performance have to opt for derailleurs, which is the normal sporting gear option anyway.

 

[Croxden]

Shimano have strict torque limits specified for their hub gears to be sold with warranty. I guess that's why Bosch feel it necessary to detune for them. Those wanting higher performance have to opt for derailleurs, which is the normal sporting gear option anyway.

I don't have Shimano, I have Rohloff. Much better spec I think.

 

[flecc]

I don't have Shimano, I have Rohloff. Much better spec I think.

Indeed, not a problem for you. However, given Shimano has command of the market, denied to Rohloff by their huge price, Bosch have to design to the lesser but popular gear.

 

[Artstu]

My lower powered Hub compatible Bosch gets through a battery pretty quickly. I bet the higher powered ones are even worse especially if a rider has less input to give than me.

Even my low power set-up has me riding faster than top-end sporting cycling for short periods whilst mine and the battery's power last.

Interestingly on a 10 mile undulating circuit my times on half power (tour setting) without a speed limit, come out about the same as full power (turbo setting) with speed limiter activated.

I much prefer riding in the former though, very natural.