Newbie help-brompton kit

[Danni]

Hello All

After lurking around here for at least 6 months i now ask for advice! I would like to convert my brompton (too many hills). the options seem to be ECW (poor service reading on here - but longer range battery) and freedom (Israel, and smaller battery range).

Can anyone here provide any guidance or advice to help me in my choice. I have emailed both for further info (although back in feb Andrew at freedom was very helpful).

Many thanks

 

[jerrysimon]

Those are your only two choices really unless you go the DIY route like I did here

If I was choosing and was in the UK, of those two I would go for EWC given that any problems it will be easier for returns.

Regards

Jerry

 

[Danni]

thanks I was thinking that - but then worried about the experiences / service. I've looked all through the archives here - and it is still so hard to tell. the freedom one is slightly lighter - not sure if the the 2kg will make that much difference.

 

[jerrysimon]

The two kits are pretty much identical in terms of weight i.e. use the same parts. The additional weight of the EWC kit is down to the bigger longer lasting battery.

You can easily get/make a smaller battery (1kg) as I show in my DIY post. I get about 10 miles round commute with my 36v, 2.3mAh battery, though I am in Cambridge. I assist approx 1/4 pedal effort to get that sort of range.

You could then use the larger heavier battery for longer/more assisted rides.

Also note the older posts relate to when EWC started out and its since been taken over . Thier service is suppose to be better. Phone them and see what you think.

Regards

Jerry

 

[Danni]

thanks -that is good to know about EWC. I noticed some of the dates on the posts about EWC are over 2 years old. I will have a look at your diy option for the lighter battery. I may be back! I have emailed them so I'll see what response I get. It's a lot of money so I want to try and make the best choice.

 

[jerrysimon]

There is also the Electric Transport Company though this uses a different motor and is 24v.

See here

They are all expensive. The DIY route would save you about 50% but will require a lot of effort and you may be on a steep learning curve. I am glad I went that route as I now understand how it all works and can maintain the unit myself if required.

I have just passed a 700 mile total using my DIY kit

Regards

Jerry

 

[Danni]

good grief! I have just read your threads. the diy route definitely not for me! very, very impressive though.

Can I ask probably a very stupid question? it is possible to buy a smaller battery for the EWC conversion.

you seem to have all this well researched. Are there any other things I should take into account in this decision.

thanks for your responses so far.

Danni

 

[jerrysimon]

I am pretty sure that EWC will let you buy it without a battery and if you are a little able DIY wise, you can make up a 36v, 2.3mAh battery using two * (6 series 1 parrallel cells) connecting them in series.

In my battery post I give you links to buy the packs here if you do not want to make up the packs yourself. Cheaper on ebay. Charger details are also in my battery post using a cheap £8 ebay battery charger.

What is the distance of your commute and how hilly is it ? I guess if you only want a smaller battery and no DIY hassle then maybe Freedom kit would be cheaper though remember you have import duty and tax to pay.

I assume you have read the Freedom Ebike Brompton post. The kit is not bad, but I think it lacks a few refinements although I must admit to being a bit of a perfectionist lol

PS just checked Freedom E prices and notice they have gone up since I last looked. You need to factor in about £100 duty/import tax on top of that.

Regards

Jerry

 

[Danni]

hi my commute is actually quite short 3 miles - but in a v hilly city. I also want to be able to use the bike more for short city journeys without having to avoid all the hills. less car use.

the freedom one looked ok with the lighter battery, but I really don't want to order from abroad. and the import taxes do add up.

the link to the battery you had - again forgive the thickness here - what else would be needed to use this battery with the EWC - (just curiosity here - the larger battery might be OK). but are the connectors all similar? would there be some adaptation to do?

 

[jerrysimon]

The DIY battery requires a few other things and some understanding of connecting up batteries in series, fitting fuses, soldering etc.

If you are not that DIY able then Freedom E is probably out as well as you will need to fit the wheel yourself, which includes filing/grinding out the dropouts and spreading the forks to fit it. EWC can do all that for you.

A smaller battery would make sense on your smaller commute and you could keep a charger at work to charge it. The smaller ones are not readily available and you would have to make one up from a couple of 6s1p packs. The smaller battery for smaller commutes is ideal to keep the hole package weight down if you have to carry it.

Given what you have told me I would recommend you initially speak to EWC. As your a fellow Bromptoner I may be able to help you out with a smaller battery if need be

Regards

Jerry

 

[Danni]

lol, no I have already reccied my local bike shop. they are all set for the grinding, wheel changing, general diy!! not me. I'm not that useless generally (work in IT and can dismantle a computer) but I do need to work out the ins ans outs of this battery situation.

 

[Danni]

that's what I was intending - possibly a charger at work. Might be speaking to you about a battery

I've been pondering this for 6 months now. I love my brompton (didn't expect too) but I like the fact that if needs be (working very late for example) i can take it home in a taxi. Although expensive - I am sure I would use the bike more if I could have some assist. I am sick of pushing the darn thing up the hills.

I have read ALL the posts on here....and it still difficult to see the way forward.

maybe I should just get fitter!

 

[homemoz]

Hi Danni,

CH White & Sons of Malmesbury (Home) also do a Brompton Conversion. For some reason they don't get much of a mention on this forum. I bought a Dahon MU conversion from them about two & a half years ago which has proved totally reliable. Maybe worth checking them out as well.

John

 

[jerrysimon]

They look like they use the EWC kit anyway which if so, is probably sourced directly from them.

Brompton Nano Electric

Regards

Jerry

 

[Danni]

i wish I had got the freedom kit back in feb when I was first looking. the kit was 470 and spare batteries 110 - the batteries have now gone upto £170 which is a bit increase.the kit has gone up £30.

basic kit 500 plus extra battery and charger is £695- then delivery, import duty and fitting .

the ewc is 749 plus 100 delivery and fitting.

so there is nothing really in it for price. Jerry- realistically what would be the price of a smaller (and therefore lighter) battery for the EWC kit - (it's oK if you don't know). the EWC doesn't say how heavy their battery is (although much greater range).

choices choices.

 

[homemoz]

They look like they use the EWC kit anyway which if so, is probably sourced directly from them.

Brompton Nano Electric

Regards

Jerry

Possibly so Jerry, however the battery does look to be different. Wonder why CH White & Son is not referred to more in this forum. Have to say that my dealings with have been very positive. I've had 3 e-bikes and the Dahon conversion has been the best by far for me (after some initial misgivings about it being throttle only).

John

 

[jerrysimon]

I would guess their battery would be around 3kg. The lighter one 36v, 2.3mAh is 1kg but probably only provides about 1/4 of the range. Note if you did not buy their battery I would expect them to maybe knock about £250-£300 off of the battery and charger, though you would have to phone them to confirm.

I looked at the A123 cells this morning on line. Basically cost to build a smaller pack would be around £100 plus a charger which is around £8-£10 off ebay, though you may need two. These are using new cells. Another cheaper option is to use cells recovered from old power drills though I think new ones make more sense for reliability.

The larger battery is probably better overall value in terms power/weight, but I like the lighter option in term of portability and using it for shorter commuting distances.

Do you live near Cambridge ?

Regards

Jerry

 

[Danni]

lol, that is exactly what I was thinking - the larger EWC battery is probably the best value in terms of distance, ease of use and less charging, but, but, but.....for a short commute and bat about town a light battery might be much better. I really want to make the right decision, I'm not using the bike as much as I should, (because of the hills) (yorkshire) - and for health reasons alone I really need to get out and about more.

I've been hovering about this since back in Feb, and I guess there is only so much internet research you can do.

I know some will think it is an abomination to mess with a brompton but I am just not strong enough for the for the hills. (wussy computer lady).

I have been on google to try and work distances out to see what the optimum journey is. I also want to be practical - the freedom one you have to disconnect the controller I think if you stop, I am not sure on the EWC - one. I also want to consider ease of use (less fiddly more likely to use) when it all fits together.

Jerry (sorry about all the questions) do you have any idea on the differences re how 'plug and play' each system is.

the other site looked interesting - but I already have the bike - so looking for a kit really.

 

[jerrysimon]

Danni,

No problem asking questions this is what the forum is for

One of the reason I first got into EBikes was because I am an insulin dependant diabetic and have to be careful of hard exercise in terms of hypos.

With an electric bike I was able to cycle the 10 miles return journey with ease. Initially I started off with a full sized bike but loved the idea of a portable ebike. The Brompton conversion gave me the best fit for my circumstances. I cycle to work right up to the front door, take off the bag, fold up the bike and then it all stows in my office. Not so bad in the summer, but in the winter when its cold, dark and raining I can get all my globber on in my office, walk out the front door flip it all open and cycle off without messing around in dark bike sheds etc. The other great thing about power assisatnce, is that when it is windy and raining it is a dream cycling with help.

In the winter I was cycling maybe 2-3 times a week, except when it was snowing and icy. In these last few months I have used the bike mostly 5 days a week to commute. Without the assistance I would never have taken up cycling to work

Its is sooooo much more relaxing than driving and the direct route to work means I can cycle in the same time, quicker than the car in fact if there are traffic jams. Now I find I pedal less sometimes and despite the assistance, in the first couple of months I lost over a stone

Anyway back to your question. You are right the Freedom E solution is powering the controller even after you unplug it from the bike. You have to disconnect the battery in the bag as well. If you don't do this, the controller will continue to draw a small amount of power and the battery will eventually run flat. If left connected for a long time unused, this could damgae the battery. I have a switch in the circuit so as soon I turn it off the power is cut to the controller. If you look in the post about the Freedom E kit you will see how it talks about sparking when you plug the battery in, which is caused because of the direct connection to the controller.

With EWC the controller is on the bike (not in the bag like my and Freedom E's solution) and as soon as you take the bag off the luggage block the battery in it is disconnected from the controller. The connection is on the luggage block itself as you can see the copper conection strip on it if you look. This then connects to a simlar strip on the bag which in turn is connected to the battery inside. They also have a power key on the actual battey I think.

I would say that the EWC is the most plug and play in terms of the bag connecting up as soon as you place it on the luggage block. I still prefer the controller in the bag though.

Regards

Jerry

 

[Danni]

Jerry I am very grateful for you taking the time to answer my questions. It makes all the difference. It's a very specialist field! I am fairly sure that the extra power will make the commute easier (the car is far too tempting). Some exercise is better than none! I have to be realistic. I like the brompton because at a last resort i can leave it in office or get a taxi.

I know what you mean about the controller looking neater in the bag (rather an a box between the handlebars) - the 3rd web site the other person linked to did a good close up shot of the copper strip around the bag block - which l think looks neat.

I am currently leaning towards EWC - I think I will phone tomorrow see how the land lies. I already have the C type bag.

I still might be interested in a smaller battery set up though. I am really not travelling that far - and the weight trade off might not be worth it. (I was weighing bags of flour earlier trying to get a sense of 3kg!).

thanks again for all your information and knowledge! really helpful.