Noise of Hub Motors

[brucehawsker]

We have been recieving a range of comments about noise from hub motors.

Our experience is the hardest wearing hub motors with laser cut hard nylon composite cogs ARE more noisy than the 8Fun (Bafung) motors from China which employ softer cast plastic cogs. When you open up an 8Fun on the test bed after giving it three years simulated wear, there is cog damage, distorition, wear and debris. When you open up a Western specified hard cog motor after an equivalent test run, there is none of that. Also the Western sprecified motor remains highly efficient.

BUT the unyielding hard cogs are noisier running.

We have clients who are completely relaxexed about the noise and like to hear the motor running hard. It is reassuring. It is similar to me in the marine field. I drive my 6.5M rib on the noise from the 2 stroke 150HP engine and hate the much quieter modern 4 strokes. Clients also like the fact that pedestrians can hear them coming.

We also have clients - well, bike shops actually - who suggest our bikes are noisy.

The comments about the Bosch vs Panasonic on crank drives made me think.

Are we looking for near silent stealth and be willing to sacrifice efficiency and risk a motor replacement? Or do we want a reassuring whine?

 

[NRG]

Nice try on up selling a negative! LOL!

 

[Oxygen Bicycles]

Hi Bruce,

I'm just thinking what's the purpose of your post??? You are comparing your hub motors branded as ''Western Cut'' (BTW are they from west part of China???) to a well deserved 8FUN with excellent reputation for quality and reliability and then you jump over to Bosch and Panasonic. If your motors are too loud then go for 8FUN or heavy direct drive. No offence Bruce but I just don't get it. People are using Banfangs for years and even if thos have some wear then what's the issue with that if they still carry on working

all the best

Andrew

 

[kitchenman]

I have a Tongxin and its quiet and it does the job that I want it to do. I dont think I want a motor that is going to wurr, buzz or purr. It would scare the horses. I like gliding through the lanes like a silent shadow ...

 

[flecc]

The silence of the latest Panasonic system is not due to a soft nylon main gear, it uses a precision cut hard nylon one. The silence is due to a combination of a helical cut gear tooth profile, a single stage gear reduction and a revision of the crankcase shape and volume which cuts internal resonances compared to the earlier unit.

New to this field, Bosch obviously have not been able to match this expertise, though with time and a second version I've no doubt they will.

Personally I think silence a highly desirable attribute on any bicycle, whether power assisted or not. However, it's almost impossible to achieve on an internally geared hub motor, and the harder wearing the gears, the greater the noise as Bruce says. The classic Heinzmann motors are examples of this, the lowest powered having a nylon gear and moderate noise level, all the higher powered versions having steel gears and very noisy in consequence.
.

 

[AndyOfTheSouth]

The Meaning of the Post

It has come to our attention that people are complaining about our noisy motors.

They are wrong. They are not noisy, they are 'Western Specified,' unlike the Bafangs used by our competitors.

Although Bafangs seem to be quiet and reliable, if you open them up after three years, you will see that they suffer from 'distorition.'

Besides, the noise of outboard motors tells swimmers to get out of our way and whine is sooooo reassuring.

There you are NRG and Oxygen, what's wrong with that?

 

[Oxygen Bicycles]

It has come to our attention that people are complaining about our noisy motors.

They are wrong. They are not noisy, they are 'Western Specified,' unlike the Bafangs used by our competitors.

Although Bafangs seem to be quiet and reliable, if you open them up after three years, you will see that they suffer from 'distorition.'

Besides, the noise of outboard motors tells swimmers to get out of our way and whine is sooooo reassuring.

There you are NRG and Oxygen, what's wrong with that?

Hi Andy,

Nothing wrong with your loud motors. If they are loud then try to source something better and quiter. I would be just grateful if you guys don't create that negative PR to the brand which has so greatly contributed to the success of many electric bike companies that were using them for years. If the gears on Bafangs need to be replaced then that's fine. Spare set of gears cost in the region of £40 which I don't think is a massive expense even if you have to replace them once in 3 years. TBH I haven't even heard that anyone was in need to replace one. We will be moving away from 8FUN very soon but not because they are bad or unrealibale but simply because there are currently better motors now available out there

BTW Andy if you represent trade business please have a look here and I'll be even more greatful if you clarify what did you mean by 'Western specified' as to me your motors look just like many other Chinese made and designed motors.

All the best

Andrew
Oxygen Bicycles

 

[AndyOfTheSouth]

The Meaning of Irony

...is sometimes missed!!!!!

Edit1: Memo to Bruce. Since my attempt at cruel irony has been interpreted as support, can I have a job, please?

Edit2: Memo to Andrew. The Memo to Bruce is not to be taken literally.

 

[Oiseaux]

I have a Tongxin and its quiet and it does the job that I want it to do. I dont think I want a motor that is going to wurr, buzz or purr. It would scare the horses. I like gliding through the lanes like a silent shadow ...

I haven't made a decision yet, but my sentiments are with kitcheman. However what I would really like is a kit conversion hub motor that is quiet AND long lasting.
Back to your drawing boards please!

Oiseaux

 

[banbury frank]

Hi
how about a Spanner in the Works

Direct drive Motors are almost silent only moving parts apart from the 2 X axle bearing

The problem is weight 6 Kilos (comparing a 4 cylinder car engine with a V8 )

also to make work properly you need use 48 volts or 60 volts High C rating Battery's BMS Rated 20 Amps continues or 50 Amps (Higher cost )

48 volt X 20 AMPS = 1,000 watts to motor

60 Volt 50 Amps + 3,000 watts to Motor

that means Controllers have to be high power 12 or 15 or 18 mosfet ( Higher cost ) can be electronically limited to 15 MPH

Do you want a Mini or a 7 series BMW they both will take you from A to B one at 90 mph one at 155 mph

But the smile on your face says it ALL

Frank

 

[flecc]

...is sometimes missed!!!!!

When I read your post Andy, I thought "someone is bound to take this seriously!"

And of course they did.
.

 

[NRG]

...is sometimes missed!!!!!

Edit1: Memo to Bruce. Since my attempt at cruel irony has been interpreted as support, can I have a job, please?

Edit2: Memo to Andrew. The Memo to Bruce is not to be taken literally.

Posting late but I got it Andy thank you

 

[NRG]

Hi
how about a Spanner in the Works

Direct drive Motors are almost silent only moving parts apart from the 2 X axle bearing

The problem is weight 6 Kilos (comparing a 4 cylinder car engine with a V8 )

also to make work properly you need use 48 volts or 60 volts High C rating Battery's BMS Rated 20 Amps continues or 50 Amps (Higher cost )

48 volt X 20 AMPS = 1,000 watts to motor

60 Volt 50 Amps + 3,000 watts to Motor

that means Controllers have to be high power 12 or 15 or 18 mosfet ( Higher cost ) can be electronically limited to 15 MPH

Do you want a Mini or a 7 series BMW they both will take you from A to B one at 90 mph one at 155 mph

But the smile on your face says it ALL

Frank

But then you try to pedal the beast without power and realise you have made a monumental mistake and wished you'd stuck to a light weight bike with a geared motor that still at least retains some resemblance to a push bike...

 

[Jon]

But then you try to pedal the beast without power and realise you have made a monumental mistake and wished you'd stuck to a light weight bike with a geared motor that still at least retains some resemblance to a push bike...

That is a fair point, have you ever tried to push a mini or a BMW 7 series. I know which i would rather push.

Does this not depend on what you want from the bike? If you want something that you dont want to pedal much and you want it to carry you then higher the power the better it will be for this. Some would argue, go get a motor bike but maybe some cant and that is not an option so an electric bike is the best next thing......

 

[Oxygen Bicycles]

...is sometimes missed!!!!!

Edit1: Memo to Bruce. Since my attempt at cruel irony has been interpreted as support, can I have a job, please?

Edit2: Memo to Andrew. The Memo to Bruce is not to be taken literally.

thank you Andy,

all the best

Andrew

 

[jbond]

We will be moving away from 8FUN very soon but not because they are bad or unrealibale but simply because there are currently better motors now available out there

For the DIYers out there, it does seem like there are some alternatives for small geared hubs appearing but they're unbranded and there's no obvious retail sales outlet for single motors/wheels. Bafang and Cute seem to be available. Cellman on ES has a 250w/350w alternative. But what about the rest? I appreciate that the details of the exact motors you're using may be commercially sensitive but we'd love to know what they are and how to obtain them.

There's a related gripe here. If you look at the specs of a mid to high end bike either on the manufacturer's site or retail outlets you'll get detailed chapter and verse about exactly which groupset, brakes, headset, etc are fitted. But when it comes to E-Bikes you get minimal info about the electric bits. There's hardly ever any info on exactly which motor is being used, if it's sensored or sensorless, battery chemistry/weight/size/C rating, controller manufacturer, controller settings, and so on and on.

 

[Wattme?]

Besides, the noise of outboard motors tells swimmers to get out of our way

I was going to add a comment some thing like "Let me guess, you drive a BMW" but whatever I wrote only diminished the stunning arrogance, so let's see it in all its glory.

the noise of outboard motors tells swimmers to get out of our way


Incredible.

 

[NRG]

I was going to add a comment some thing like "Let me guess, you drive a BMW" but whatever I wrote only diminished the stunning arrogance, so let's see it in all its glory.

the noise of outboard motors tells swimmers to get out of our way


Incredible.

Incredible but I think you've rather missed the ironic nature of Andys reply given the context of the original post...

 

[Cyclezee]

For the DIYers out there, it does seem like there are some alternatives for small geared hubs appearing but they're unbranded and there's no obvious retail sales outlet for single motors/wheels. Bafang and Cute seem to be available. Cellman on ES has a 250w/350w alternative. But what about the rest? I appreciate that the details of the exact motors you're using may be commercially sensitive but we'd love to know what they are and how to obtain them.

There's a related gripe here. If you look at the specs of a mid to high end bike either on the manufacturer's site or retail outlets you'll get detailed chapter and verse about exactly which groupset, brakes, headset, etc are fitted. But when it comes to E-Bikes you get minimal info about the electric bits. There's hardly ever any info on exactly which motor is being used, if it's sensored or sensorless, battery chemistry/weight/size/C rating, controller manufacturer, controller settings, and so on and on.

Hi Jbond,

One manufacturer that does publish motor specification etc., is eZee. This link to my site should tell you what you want to know eZee Kits - Cyclezee Ltd

 

[banbury frank]

Hi Aldby

This posting is about NOISE you motor specifications don't mention noise output in decibels

Frank