Optibike SIMBB 29C now available for pre order

[flecc]

The Bosch has a 400 Wh option battery, so close to the Optibike 480 claim. That claim I treat with a pinch of salt though, considering how small the battery is within that unit. There is no such thing as a definite Wh capacity of any battery, it depends on the current output that it's rated at. Deciding the capacity at a low output can increase the Wh figure by 30% over a more realistic rating, a trick some manufacturers exploit. Draining the Optibike and 400Wh Bosch batteries at the same rates could produce the same quantity output from each for all we know, the figures given are meaningless without qualification.

The continuous power wattage is close enough to be comparable as I've posted above, and the 3x torque claim is unlikely to say the least. Again not enough detail, like needs to be compared with like, and only the final torque at the rear wheel for a given speed gearing on both is comparable. Crank unit only torque comparisons are meaningless, since their output gearing can be different.

 

[flecc]

Ah ok I misunderstood you before. Do you know what the Bosch's actual continuous power is?

From the scant details given and the actual measured performance it appears to be slightly over 500 watts continuous for the 350 watt rated unit. It's unlikely to be higher since Bosch have been limiting since their first units were going though chains at an embarrassing rate, an indication of just how powerful they can be. They easily live up to the German 45 kph (28 mph) high speed class needs.

 

[Optibike]

The Bosch has a 400 Wh option battery, so close to the Optibike 480 claim. That claim I treat with a pinch of salt though, considering how small the battery is within that unit. There is no such thing as a definite Wh capacity of any battery, it depends on the current output that it's rated at. Deciding the capacity at a low output can increase the Wh figure by 30% over a more realistic rating, a trick some manufacturers exploit. Draining the Optibike and 400Wh Bosch batteries at the same rates could produce the same quantity output from each for all we know, the figures given are meaningless without qualification.

The continuous power wattage is close enough to be comparable as I've posted above, and the 3x torque claim is unlikely to say the least. Again not enough detail, like needs to be compared with like, and only the final torque at the rear wheel for a given speed gearing on both is comparable. Crank unit only torque comparisons are meaningless, since their output gearing can be different.

The SIMBB battery is a true 480 Wh at the full 16 amps that we discharge it at in the SIMBB. And just so you know, we don't lie about specs and performance at Optibike. I've seen that a lot of people don't believe that we could fit a 37v 13 ah battery in the SIMBB, but why would we lie about that? All that would do in the end is damage the companies reputation.

 

[trex]

The SIMBB battery is a true 480 Wh at the full 16 amps that we discharge it at in the SIMBB. And just so you know, we don't lie about specs and performance at Optibike. I've seen that a lot of people don't believe that we could fit a 37v 13 ah battery in the SIMBB, but why would we lie about that? All that would do in the end is damage the companies reputation.

Your guys can't do the maths.
There are various losses from the battery to real life speed. If your motor pullls only 16A, that's equilavent to most EN15194 bikes out there, you'd only get to 26mph with a helping wind, 21mph is likely.
It is generally accepted that 250W are needed for 25kph in EN15194 test conditions.
You'll need to produce approximately 600W at the wheels for 26mph. The S-pedelec can do 28mph easily, power at the wheels is around 700W at that speed, ways above your league.
As to that 150NM torque, it's meaningless without knowing the angular velocity.
250W on a 26" wheel gives 12NM at 25kph

 

[flecc]

Optibike, your 16 amps at 37 volts gives 592 watts of consumption, not motor power output. At a typical 75% efficiency your maximum continuous output is 450 watts, normal 15mph e-bike territory, and as Trex says, nothing like enough for the performance claims,

You have to accept that your statistics are faulty in at least one respect and likely two or more.

 

[103Alex1]

The 16Amps admission at nominal 37V has (regrettably) blown hopes of credibility as to this system's power clean out of the water. What a shame - still hoping for the day when battery tech will advance to the stage it can be compacted so as deliver better performance than what we have on the market at the moment.

The Bosch 350W performance isn't really enough still and by the looks of it neither is this. Perhaps with advancement in gear reduction etc. then with a US market willing to demand more the concept can be developed to deliver a better product. However sales hype will likely stave that off for a while yet. In the meantime the pricing (especially for European customers importing) is thousands of pounds into cloud cuckoo land as far as VFM concerned.

It was nice to dream ... whilst it lasted

 

[Optibike]

Optibike, your 16 amps at 37 volts gives 592 watts of consumption, not motor power output. At a typical 75% efficiency your maximum continuous output is 450 watts, normal 15mph e-bike territory, and as Trex says, nothing like enough for the performance claims,

You have to accept that your statistics are faulty in at least one respect and likely two or more.

We can easily hit 24mph on the SIMBB 29 on flat ground, no pedaling and with knobbie tires.

 

[Optibike]

The 16Amps admission at nominal 37V has (regrettably) blown hopes of credibility as to this system's power clean out of the water. What a shame - still hoping for the day when battery tech will advance to the stage it can be compacted so as deliver better performance than what we have on the market at the moment.

The Bosch 350W performance isn't really enough still and by the looks of it neither is this. Perhaps with advancement in gear reduction etc. then with a US market willing to demand more the concept can be developed to deliver a better product. However sales hype will likely stave that off for a while yet. In the meantime the pricing (especially for European customers importing) is thousands of pounds into cloud cuckoo land as far as VFM concerned.

It was nice to dream ... whilst it lasted

You have to remember, that's continuous, not peak or acceleration power, like I said earlier in the thread it has almost twice that much power peak.

 

[103Alex1]

How do you figure that one ? Fully charged battery = 42V. At 16Amps the maximum power that can deliver is 42 x 16 = 672W.

For sustained very steep hills you need a system capable of sustaining peak output for several minutes. Which means running considerably higher amps. You can substantiate your assertions by sharing the maximum amps that your controllers will run for a meaningful period of time. For example on a 25% mile-long climb with flat out throttle assist. If that is 16A then the realistic power is ballpark equivalent to a Bosch S-Pedelec (maybe a bit less) and certainly no more. Speed will not be in the least bit exciting even if it does chug up there.

 

[Optibike]

How do you figure that one ? Fully charged battery = 42V. At 16Amps the maximum power that can deliver is 42 x 16 = 672W.

For sustained very steep hills you need a system capable of sustaining peak output for several minutes. Which means running considerably higher amps. You can substantiate your assertions by sharing the maximum amps that your controllers will run for a meaningful period of time. For example on a 25% mile-long climb with flat out throttle assist. If that is 16A then the realistic power is ballpark equivalent to a Bosch S-Pedelec (maybe a bit less) and certainly no more. Speed will not be in the least bit exciting even if it does chug up there.

The peak current is much higher than 16A. That's just the continuous current.

 

[103Alex1]

So what is the peak current then ? We'd really need to know this to be able to hazard any sort of 'positional view' for the bike.

 

[Optibike]

So what is the peak current then ? We'd really need to know this to be able to hazard any sort of 'positional view' for the bike.

That's part of our patented Derivative Power Control so unfortunately we can't tell you the exact current.

Here are a couple brief reviews done by electric bike enthusiasts that have absolutely no connection to Optibike, if you want to see what non Optibike employees think of these bikes.

Optibike SIMBB 29er Electric Bike Review - YouTube

Optibike SIMBB Prototype E-bike---Have a Look and a Ride - YouTube

 

[trex]

That's part of our patented Derivative Power Control so unfortunately we can't tell you the exact current.

Here are a couple brief reviews done by electric bike enthusiasts that have absolutely no connection to Optibike, if you want to see what non Optibike employees think of these bikes.

Optibike SIMBB 29er Electric Bike Review - YouTube

in this video, the guy said that your battery has 37V while the competition has 36V.
That shows how expert his opinion is. Did you pay for the video?

 

[peerjay56]

That's part of our patented Derivative Power Control so unfortunately we can't tell you the exact current.

Here are a couple brief reviews done by electric bike enthusiasts that have absolutely no connection to Optibike, if you want to see what non Optibike employees think of these bikes.

Optibike SIMBB 29er Electric Bike Review - YouTube

Optibike SIMBB Prototype E-bike---Have a Look and a Ride - YouTube

Snake oil. Shouldn't you be registered as a trade member

 

[RobF]

It's hard to judge the volume of a complex shape, but the size of the lump around the bottom bracket looks little bigger than an inverted Bosch motor.

I find it hard to believe that shape can also contain a 13ah battery, given the size of the 11ah battery on my Bosch bike, or the size of generic 10-11ah bottle batteries.

 

[trex]

in the video you can see the motor on the shelf. It's in cylindrical shape. Presumably, the new kit uses the same motor with battery cells packed inside the alluminum casing. The owner also explains the 'derivative power control' as their algorithm to reduce power consumption by anticipating what the user wants and what the road is like. Their use of the word 'patented' is unsubstantiated.
[video=youtube;z7oDpG081xI]http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=z7oDpG081xI[/video]

 

[flecc]

That's part of our patented Derivative Power Control so unfortunately we can't tell you the exact current.

This is pure nonsense, we aren't asking you to disclose the circuitry or software, just it's result. How can the peak current be a secret when any customer buying one can measure it immediately with commonly available gadgets that many have already?

You are doing what so many suppliers do these days, hyping with bluff and it's a big mistake. This forum is a very friendly one to manufacturers and suppliers who are straightforward, and they've often found that to pay off handsomely as a result.

The technology behind today's motors, controllers and batteries is well understood and widely shared. There are no miracles and claims of faster + better hill climbing + X times the torque + longer range etc than the best competitors' products are automatically nonsense.

In the UK we don't have the salesman friendly culture of the USA and the flexible marketing that works there doesn't here.
.

 

[tillson]

This is pure nonsense, we aren't asking you to disclose the circuitry or software, just it's result. How can the peak current be a secret when any customer buying one can measure it immediately with commonly available gadgets that many have already?

You are doing what so many suppliers do these days, hyping with bluff and it's a big mistake. This forum is a very friendly one to manufacturers and suppliers who are straightforward, and they've often found that to pay off handsomely as a result.

The technology behind today's motors, controllers and batteries is well understood and widely shared. There are no miracles and claims of faster + better hill climbing + X times the torque + longer range etc than the best competitors' products are automatically nonsense.

In the UK we don't have the salesman friendly culture of the USA and the flexible marketing that works there doesn't here.
.

Very well put. It will be interesting to hear his answer.

 

[Optibike]

in this video, the guy said that your battery has 37V while the competition has 36V.
That shows how expert his opinion is. Did you pay for the video?

No, we didn't pay Electric Bike Review or Turbo Bob to make those reviews, we have never paid anyone to make a review of any of our bikes.

 

[Deleted member 4366]

It's hard to judge the volume of a complex shape, but the size of the lump around the bottom bracket looks little bigger than an inverted Bosch motor.

I find it hard to believe that shape can also contain a 13ah battery, given the size of the 11ah battery on my Bosch bike, or the size of generic 10-11ah bottle batteries.

View attachment 7350

There's easily enough room for a 37v 12aH battery and a controller in that motor housing. I don't know how you lot can argue about that. You'll look really silly when someone opens one up in a few months to show you how they fit. I personally can't see anything in the specification that looks unrealistic. Instead of arguing about it, you should start saving up your money. Only the speed claims seem to be a bit stretched. My GNG with a 25 amp controller can manage about 22 mph without pedalling. The simulator also says about 22mph on the flat, so maybe 24mph with pedalling and more downhill or with a following wind. The 350w Bosch would be less.