Panasonic Error Codes

C

Cyclezee

Guest
After waiting several weeks of waiting for a price from 50cycles for a replacement motor, I found a used one in perfect condition for a bargain price and have now fixed the Agattu:D

Anyone want a free dud Panasonic motor to play with?
 

mike killay

Esteemed Pedelecer
Feb 17, 2011
3,012
1,629
Is the Panasonic system just far too complicated, leading to expensive repair bills like this?
Frankly, to my mind, a system that reduces power output just when you are tired and need it is all wrong.
How is it any better than a simple motor, disc of magnets on the crank and a throttle?
Just how can it assist you up that last steep hill when you are near the end of your ride?
 

NRG

Esteemed Pedelecer
Oct 6, 2009
2,592
10
Is the Panasonic system just far too complicated, leading to expensive repair bills like this?
Frankly, to my mind, a system that reduces power output just when you are tired and need it is all wrong.
How is it any better than a simple motor, disc of magnets on the crank and a throttle?
Just how can it assist you up that last steep hill when you are near the end of your ride?
Because it drives through the bikes gears and increases power as the cadence slows when you become tired or the gradient increases. Its the best thought out system of them all in my book although it does take getting used to and in moderate to flat terrain a simple hub motor is arguably better.
 

tillson

Esteemed Pedelecer
May 29, 2008
5,253
3,197
Is the Panasonic system just far too complicated, leading to expensive repair bills like this?
Frankly, to my mind, a system that reduces power output just when you are tired and need it is all wrong.
How is it any better than a simple motor, disc of magnets on the crank and a throttle?
Just how can it assist you up that last steep hill when you are near the end of your ride?
Although the Panasonic system is complicated internally, from a user's point of view it is very simple, perhaps one of the most simple.

Coincidently, I was only thinking about this an hour or so ago. The Panasonic unit is a very neat and totally self contained drive system. There are no plugs, connectors, cables, brake cut off switches, cable ties, velcro straps, magnets on disks or any of the other paraphernalia which seems to accompany the rather Heath Robinson hub motor set ups. With the Panasonic, the drive and battery are one and nothing further is required.

They are difficult to repair if a fault develops, but as Scott says, this is an extremely rare event. The unit is built to a very high standard and can withstand anything that you could throw at it. Some have even run them immersed in water without problem. This really is a system which is totally reliable and it is such that being let down never crosses your mind.

The unit does not reduce power as your legs tire, quite the reverse. As your legs tire and cadence reduces, the power delivery increases. This tends to coax more effort out of the rider, but somehow, you don't notice it. Think of it as a magic hand moving at a constant speed behind you. You can outpace the hand and leave it behind, but as you tire, the hand catches up and you fall back into the comfort of it's assistance. It's a very ingenious invention.

This self contained ultra reliable unit aside, the remainder is very much standard bike fodder so should not present any difficulties for a regular bike shop. Unlike their hub motored cousins with the wires, straps and swithchs which perhaps need a more extensive netetwork of specialised support support, or a garden shed stocked with an enviable selection of screwdrivers and self adhesive tape.

Personally, I view hub motor bikes, particulary those with the Panasonic and Bosch systems as, "proper ebikes". The others just seem like a cobbled together compromise marketed with varying degrees of professionalism. But this is just a personal view.
 
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mike killay

Esteemed Pedelecer
Feb 17, 2011
3,012
1,629
My understanding is that it will only deliver twice the input that you can manage. If this is so, then as soon as your input falls below 125 watts, you start to get less than 250 watts of assistance.
If this is so, then the system is unnecessarily limited and unlikely to impress those who live in hilly districts.
If I read you correctly, if you pedal hard, then it will also reduce assistance. How does this help on a 1 in 5 hill?
 

tillson

Esteemed Pedelecer
May 29, 2008
5,253
3,197
A Panasonic equipped bike will virtually climb up the side of a house with very little effort. It eats hills and is the best machine on which to tackle them.

It accomplishes all of this by driving through the bike's gears. Because power is made up of torque and wheel rotation speed, for any given power output, the wheel speed can be reduced by selecting a lower gear. This in turn increases the amount of torque available at the back wheel, which is what you need to get up a hill. When on the level, select a higher gear and the high torque is traded for a higher wheel rotation speed. You cant do this with a hub motor driven bike, its stuck in top gear all the time. It is a bit like trying to drive up a very very steep hill in 6th gear in your car, it just wont do it. With a legal hub motored bike, you will be off it and walking up a hill long before you would on a Panasonic.
 
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carpetbagger

Esteemed Pedelecer
Nov 20, 2007
744
18
blackburn
My understanding is that it will only deliver twice the input that you can manage. If this is so, then as soon as your input falls below 125 watts, you start to get less than 250 watts of assistance.
If this is so, then the system is unnecessarily limited and unlikely to impress those who live in hilly districts.
If I read you correctly, if you pedal hard, then it will also reduce assistance. How does this help on a 1 in 5 hill?
i live in a quite hilly area and regurlarly ascend 12% gradients..with relative ease,,,in fact i have even ridden up a 16% gradient. they are superb hill climbers...lance armstrong in a box !!

just looked back through my rides and the steepest gradient i have ridden is 20% on this ride
http://connect.garmin.com/activity/48267165
 
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mike killay

Esteemed Pedelecer
Feb 17, 2011
3,012
1,629
I weigh 104 kilograms. My Tonaro Enduro in bottom gear has just brought me up a 10% hill without pedalling at all. If you know the hill between Mumbles pier and the 'Apple', it must be 20%, I pedalled up that in first gear still sitting in the saddle. I am not convinced about the Panasonic system at all.
 

flecc

Member
Oct 25, 2006
53,559
30,848
My understanding is that it will only deliver twice the input that you can manage. If this is so, then as soon as your input falls below 125 watts, you start to get less than 250 watts of assistance.
If this is so, then the system is unnecessarily limited and unlikely to impress those who live in hilly districts.
If I read you correctly, if you pedal hard, then it will also reduce assistance. How does this help on a 1 in 5 hill?
It's important to remember that the 250 watts figure is an average maximum power assessment to satisfy legal requirements. Maximum continuous powers available on all e-bikes are well in excess of the legal figure when used at their optimums, typically 400 watts or more, so the Panasonic systems ability to optimise conditions gives a wider range of conditions when their maximum power is available.

Pedalling harder does not reduce the power, On older models, pedalling faster reduced the power, but that just meant slowing the pedalling speed to get maximum power. Latest models now have full power throughout the range.

That said, your Tonaro has some of the same abilities since it drives through the gears, but it is heavy compared to the Panasonic motored bikes.
.
 
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tillson

Esteemed Pedelecer
May 29, 2008
5,253
3,197
I am not convinced about the Panasonic system at all.
It's difficult to convey the merits of the Panasonic system with words alone and I understand your scepticism.

I have owned a Panasonic equiped bike for three years and travelled over 8000 totally trouble free very hilly miles on one. That's enough to convince me.
 

carpetbagger

Esteemed Pedelecer
Nov 20, 2007
744
18
blackburn
I weigh 104 kilograms. My Tonaro Enduro in bottom gear has just brought me up a 10% hill without pedalling at all. If you know the hill between Mumbles pier and the 'Apple', it must be 20%, I pedalled up that in first gear still sitting in the saddle. I am not convinced about the Panasonic system at all.
On the 16% and 20% gradients i rode up i was still seated. 50c rode up Alpe D'huez...what more can you say......
it looks like i miss read my data,the 20% gradient was actually 22% recorded on garmin training centre software.
you wouldn't want to ride up steeper then that !!!
 
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Erik

Pedelecer
Feb 20, 2008
198
3
Does anyone actually have a list of error codes?
After installing this year's new Zippy lipo packs, the indicator on the battery blinks fast 6 times when I push the button.
The previous 3 re-cellings have worked fine for about 1 to 2 years, maybe 50 -70 cycles.