Pedelec Law - The Details

sjpt

Esteemed Pedelecer
Jun 8, 2018
2,636
2,079
As with guy who originally had the 100K law suited against him partly quashed, the judge mentioned he would have been better braking then sounding a warning. Implying that in the time he took to do so would have been better used to slow down.
You can brake and shout at the same time. We have bells in very easy reach of the left thumb and use them when possible, but still often find we need to call (maybe just 'ding, ding') or in extremis shout. We go pretty slowly and carefully, but pedestrians (including us when walking) can be pretty unpredictable.
 

Markxc40

Pedelecer
May 15, 2020
47
11
Hello.

Can anybody advise me on the on road legality of an e-bike I would like.

It has a 750 watt motor but it can be ridden ..........
1/ Pedal assist only max speed 15mph.
2/ PA & throttle limited through the display/computer to 15mph.
3/ Throttle only max speed can be set to 15mph. [to change speed you would have to stop and enter the display/comp mode while stationary.] It will not let you alter top speed while moving.

So does this allow me to use it on roads and cycle tracks?
I will be able to use it on some private land but to get there I would need to go via roads, tracks etc.
I presently ride a Cube Acid e-bike.
 

GSV3MiaC

Pedelecer
Jun 6, 2020
177
116
Aiui..

It is illegal on roads, bridleways, and other public places.

But you probably wouldn't get stopped/caught, unless you did something stupid.

I wouldn't, but lots of people seemingly do.
 
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flecc

Member
Oct 25, 2006
48,777
26,446
Hello.

Can anybody advise me on the on road legality of an e-bike I would like.

It has a 750 watt motor but it can be ridden ..........
1/ Pedal assist only max speed 15mph.
2/ PA & throttle limited through the display/computer to 15mph.
3/ Throttle only max speed can be set to 15mph. [to change speed you would have to stop and enter the display/comp mode while stationary.] It will not let you alter top speed while moving.

So does this allow me to use it on roads and cycle tracks?
I will be able to use it on some private land but to get there I would need to go via roads, tracks etc.
I presently ride a Cube Acid e-bike.
It is illegal on one point only, the 750 watt rated motor. The maximum rating permitted is 250 watts.

But as GSV3MiaC says, you are very unlikely to get stopped or prosecuted.

If you were, obviously act innocent on the grounds you didn't realise it was illegal and hope for just a caution.
.
 
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Andy-Mat

Esteemed Pedelecer
Oct 26, 2018
1,762
419
74
I think your humble opinion may be wrong. I went to grammar school then, joined the Army and ended a successful 24 year career as a Major. I now have a successful consultancy practice advising upon logistics and security in conflict zones and areas of the World with questionable rule of law. I'm quite glad I didn't leave school at 14 to be an apprentice something or other.
I did 11 years in the RN between 17 and 28, but I still maintain that many Grammar School people are basically unfitted for being professional soldiers of any sort, but I loved it!
None of the people I went to school with entered any of the armed services, too dangerous one of them mentioned many years later.....
Andy
 

Andy-Mat

Esteemed Pedelecer
Oct 26, 2018
1,762
419
74
Probably because the general take no notice of a poxy little bike bell and car drivers can't hear them. Rendering them pointless.
Euro rules at their best eh
Here they are not seen as a way to communicate to/with a car driver, but a way of warning pedestrians that a bike is approaching, probably from behind them.
Andy
 
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Andy-Mat

Esteemed Pedelecer
Oct 26, 2018
1,762
419
74
Here its in the law that all bikes must have a bell of a particular "loudness", to be fitted to every bike, or the bike may only be ridden on fenced off, private roads.
I thought it was also EU law, maybe its not!
Sad. I wonder which idiotic politicians got rid of that?
Andy
86db of loudness!
Andy
 

flecc

Member
Oct 25, 2006
48,777
26,446
86db of loudness!
Andy
Not a well observed law though. Some of the German Kalkhoff models had their bell integrated in the left hand brake lever. It was tiny and only gave single faint "ting" when its lever was flicked:

 

Andy-Mat

Esteemed Pedelecer
Oct 26, 2018
1,762
419
74
Not a well observed law though. Some of the German Kalkhoff models had their bell integrated in the left hand brake lever. It was tiny and only gave single faint "ting" when its lever was flicked:

The law is not observed by bike riders, nor followed up on by the German Police and the Ordnungsamter (English for their name I do not know, but they are part of a towns legal team!) either......Sadly!
Andy
 
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Andy-Mat

Esteemed Pedelecer
Oct 26, 2018
1,762
419
74
Google translate gave me "Public order office".
.
As good as any name, but I do not think that there is a true equivalent in the UK.
In the UK, its local police force that has "the last say!"
There are local Police Support people in uniform, in the UK in some areas, but an exact equivalent there is not!
I myself find the German Ordnungsamt fairly toothless and a waste of public money.....no matter what the problem, they do nothing, not even fining the people who do not pick up after their dogs......which IS their job!
Too many jobs in Germany are "jobs for the boys (and girls)", who basically sit, get paid and do nothing useful.
They also have what is called "Beamter" status (only in Germany and Austria is there such a thing!), a title that means you have to kill someone in front of a policeman, before you get charged with murder and lose your position......another huge waste of German public money.
You can look here for an idea of what it means:-
https://www.google.com/search?client=firefox-b-d&q=what+is+a+Beamter+in+English?
But there is NOT a 100% true equivalent in the UK.......thankfully!! As nobody in the UK has such a job protection as Beamters do here!!!!
Thankfully, in many areas now, it has been recognised as a problem and no "new" ones are being created, and the older ones are simply dying out....
Thanks for your help.
Andy
 
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Tony1951

Pedelecer
Mar 27, 2016
121
57
70
When I first joined the forum 10 years ago, people were saying the same thing, in particular with reference to all the guys riding round on unrestricted bikes. Nothing has changed yet. It was rumoured, though I'm pretty sure that it's true, that our friend Colin from KTM even wrote to all the bike magazines trying to stir up support to get more stringent laws and regulations.
There are plenty of people who would like to see walking covered by stringent regulations. The issue of gross irresponsibility towards others should be less a matter of winding red tape around people's necks and more a matter of harsh punishment of gross and dangerous violators of good riding and good manners. It isn't the 750 watt motor, or the 'pedelec' that goes at 20 miles an hour that injures pedestrians or car drivers, or frightens the life out of them. It is the utter numpty who rides like a complete fool that does it. It is usually a bloke with no brains and no respect. Getting hung up on a notional power level, top powered speed of 15.5 miles an hour, and forcing it on everybody, misses the point entirely. It achieves nothing except causing a pain in the backside to everyone. Bad and inconsiderate riding is the problem - another is boorish runners in the park charging headlong at people during the pandemic, spluttering, spitting and coughing as they charge past older people on the paths and passing within inches of them.
 
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flecc

Member
Oct 25, 2006
48,777
26,446
The issue of gross irresponsibility towards others should be less a matter of winding red tape around people's necks and more a matter of harsh punishment of gross and dangerous violators of good riding and good manners.
I'm sure we mostly agree Tony, but the way it's being done is very cheap, suiting government.

The detection, catching and harshly punishing way is ultimately far more effective but very expensive, since it requires large numbers of ever present police of one kind or another, plus large increases in court and prison costs.

A similar problem exists with motor traffic, a huge range of laws and regulations applying to drivers but in many areas traffic police almost non-existent so there's very little enforcement.
.
 
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Tony1951

Pedelecer
Mar 27, 2016
121
57
70
I'm sure we mostly agree Tony, but the way it's being done is very cheap, suiting government.

The detection, catching and harshly punishing way is ultimately far more effective but very expensive, since it requires large numbers of ever present police of one kind or another.

A similar problem exists with motor traffic, a huge range of laws and regulations applying to drivers but in many areas traffic police almost non-existent so there's very little enforcement.
.
Yes - and we all see absolutely shocking standards of driving, though most drivers are responsible and even considerate - particularly where I live in Northumberland.
 

Andy-Mat

Esteemed Pedelecer
Oct 26, 2018
1,762
419
74
Yes - and we all see absolutely shocking standards of driving, though most drivers are responsible and even considerate - particularly where I live in Northumberland.
It takes only a tiny percentage to spoil things for the rest......I see it here as well.....
Andy
 
Nov 10, 2006
177
14
Midlands
It takes only a tiny percentage to spoil things for the rest......I see it here as well.....
Andy
God don't get started on extension dog leads either. The number of times little old ladies let the damn things run in front of you on a bridleway.
 
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Foffer

Just Joined
Sep 1, 2021
1
1
Thank you for a very full and interesting post. I know that the UK legal motor size limit is 250W but am puzzled how Bosch manage to make a whole range of motors at prices that go up with torque from 40Nm up to 85Nm, are these all 250W, just that the more expensive ones have more powerful watts?
 
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Nealh

Esteemed Pedelecer
Aug 7, 2014
13,848
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West Sx RH
Thank you for a very full and interesting post. I know that the UK legal motor size limit is 250W but am puzzled how Bosch manage to make a whole range of motors at prices that go up with torque from 40Nm up to 85Nm, are these all 250W, just that the more expensive ones have more powerful watts?
Good question, maybe they are pulling the wool and labelling them as 250w so not to be illegal. How one gets some twice the stated NM without the motor being rated higher I don't know.
Needs someone better to explain, is it down to programming wizardry, gearing or stronger build components ? Are these bikes actually 350 /500w rated motors as double the torque in NM doesn't appear out of thin air.
 
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