Pedelecs - Read Terms and Conditions of Warranty

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Woosh

Trade Member
May 19, 2012
19,602
16,507
Southend on Sea
wooshbikes.co.uk
Ts and Cs are an issue with many products, but with electric bikes they can be especially complicated.
This is because they are a relatively new product to the UK market.
You can read our Sales Conditions here, and warranty here.

Before accepting an order, we try hard to make sure the bike is right.
We check things like purpose (leisure? commuting? both?), rider weight, rider height and other details such as local terrain . We input the customer ' s postcode into our Clearway Predictor to check local hills and
lastly run through issues such as disabilites, age and expectations.
Just to give you an idea, we've had all of the following to deal with: a Malaysian lady who fancied a Sundowner.
I've been to Malaysia, know for a fact that 90% of ladies there are under 5ft tall...and the Sundowner is an elegant but whopping great 20 inch framed model with 28 inch wheels.
Witness too the case of the rider with bad arthritis in her right hand who probably wouldn't be able to turn the throttle easily and hadn't realised.
Not to mention retired 'Jones the Bread' from Ebbw Vale who'd had a new right knee and left hip in quick succession, couldn't pedal and weighed 24 stone.

We also try to make things as clear as possible when we send out a bike - despite how many checks we may have made at the point of order.
Before the customer opens the carton, a label on the top indicates that there is an envelope underneath the flap containing their receipt and instruction manual - a pretty comprehensive affair of 24 pages or so of which the first 5 or 6 are dedicated not to the technicalities of the bike but to consumer issues such as expectations, warranty and returns. The label - and front page of the manual - urge the customer to read everything at all costs before riding.

Our warranty is strictly 12 months - 365 days - from the date of receipt, and the reason for this is that our suppliers give us exactly the same on most parts.

Obviously some cases can be slightly contentious - we have for example a few customers who declare on the 364th day that they have noticed a 'knocking' noise, their motor is 'whining a bit' or their battery no longer seems to be charging properly - this kind of thing.
And sometimes of course we have customers reporting the same into the 13th or 14th month after they bought the bike.
We try to be fair in these circumstances by considering the merits of the case.
If we feel that the customer is trying to take advantage of a last minute warranty replacement, we explain why it just isn't possible.
If we feel that the case is borderline, we will almost certainly offer free parts and labour, for example, but ask that carriage to and fro - up to £39 - be paid by the customer.
Almost all our customers are intelligent, cooperative people and accept this without question .

Our customers want us to be flexible if at all possible - we ask of our suppliers the same.
So....depending upon individual cases, we may occasionally agree, even outside the warranty terms, to offer a free replacement part if we think that the part, or assembly, was genuinely faulty at the point of manufacture.
In these days of consumer rights, EU law and small profit margins (goodness knows, ours are), it is very hard to strike an acceptable balance.
I think the key is to be absolutely honest with our customers, point out where their expectations may be a little too high at times but be completely fair to those with a genuine problem, compromise on warranty terms if we possibly can and make sure that everyone is happy in the end.

Not easy...but that's what we try to do.
 

TETS

Finding my (electric) wheels
Apr 6, 2007
10
2
Hi, I would just like to offer the OP that if you take the bike in to one of our 5 stores we'll have an expert appraise it for you and if required prepare a written statement outlining any issues with the bike that you can use for any future claims either in court or through MBNA to try and achieve a refund on the product.

We can also provide you with some free advice and test rides before you choose next ebike so you at least end up with something that you will be happy with and will last for many years to come.


Matt Widgery
The Electric Transport Shop
 

BrianC

Finding my (electric) wheels
Sep 8, 2013
23
0
Reply

Hi, I would just like to offer the OP that if you take the bike in to one of our 5 stores we'll have an expert appraise it for you and if required prepare a written statement outlining any issues with the bike that you can use for any future claims either in court or through MBNA to try and achieve a refund on the product.

We can also provide you with some free advice and test rides before you choose next ebike so you at least end up with something that you will be happy with and will last for many years to come.


Matt Widgery
The Electric Transport Shop
Thank you, where are your 5 shops. I am in Leek.
 

geejay

Finding my (electric) wheels
Sep 11, 2013
10
0
I've read the Term referred to: "A motor which has failed due to excessive heat will not be covered by warranty and is considered misuse of the product." and it seems to me a clear case of an unfair condition which tries to restrict the customer's statutory rights, as it denies that the overheating could ever be caused by a manufacturing fault or some other fault other than "misuse". Unfair conditions are not enforceable and I suggest you refer this to Trading Standards as well as going to the Small Claims Court as already suggested.

It also suggests that there is a design flaw in that the system can allow the motor to overheat and fail without cutting-out. After all, thermal cut-outs are hardly rocket science.

I am also worried about the intransigence of the dealer (if the OP has reported accurately, and there are always two sides to any story) and that he hasn't come on here to clarify. I've read some poor reports of various manufacturers and dealers on various forums and it's certainly made me think whether this is good road to go down or whether it might be an expensive and frustrating mistake.

I too have a motorhome and reading the forums it soon becomes apparent who are the dealers and makes to avoid and who go the extra mile. So, as always, caveat emptor.
 

trex

Esteemed Pedelecer
May 15, 2011
7,703
2,671
geejay,
We are not talking about a Bosch crank drive here.
The design of BrianC's bike isn't foolproof, the supplier has rightly stated the limitations of the product. I don't think that the limited warranty clause denies the customer's statutory rights.
 
D

Deleted member 4366

Guest
I agree. The bike is a basically a low cost item and requires that you use it sensibly. If you want the all-singing-all dancing failsafe one, you ave to spend about £2000, and then you get other faults to argue about the warrant. About a year ago, a guy bought a Haibike and his frame broke. I was very messy sorting that out.

I don't see the motor over-heating thing any different to handling glass. After you've dropped and broken your glass object, you don't make a claim against the supplier on the basis that he could have encased it in rubber to stop it breaking when you drop it.

We don't know all the details of the OP's over-heating problem, so it's not possible to judge.
 

geejay

Finding my (electric) wheels
Sep 11, 2013
10
0
Just because something is low cost doesn't mean it can be sold as "not fit for purpose" - to assume you have no rights on a cheap item is a common fallacy. You have the same rights if you buy a Ford or a Rolls. Yes, we don't know the full details, but the OP was drawing attention to the T&C's of the guarantee which seeks to absolve the seller for any responsibility for a motor failing due to "excessive heat". For a start what is "excessive"? Second, there could be a manufacturing fault in the motor causing "excessive heat", but they try to pre-empt that possibility. Third there could be some other intrinsic fault having nothing to do with the way it has been used.

So, irrespective of the rights or wrongs of the actual case the T&C's are questionable.

It's a constant problem in all areas of commerce where some people try to deny customers their statutory rights and then make it difficult to obtain proper redress. I always think you can tell the quality of company by how they deal with things when they go wrong. Ryan Air anyone?

On the other hand one of the previous posters explained how he tried to go the extra mile in dealing with customers' complaints.
 
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trex

Esteemed Pedelecer
May 15, 2011
7,703
2,671
It's not a question of fitness. In another thread, the OP reported one incident of overheating: 10 miles out in the 16th outing, 4 months after purchase last December. I assume that the bike is still working.
 

Electrifying Cycles

Esteemed Pedelecer
Jun 4, 2011
1,005
176
The key is fairness. When we get a warranty claim we try to be fair and respond quickly. Most good retail businesses will do this. It is important people take the time to make the right decision on choice of bike whether buying locally or not. Ask all the right questions, we are happy to answer any questions and state in writing if needed.

Any claims would normally need to be made through the retailer. We have found e bikes to generally be very reliable. To give you an idea of how we approach warranty issues we had a customer who was not the orginal owner of a bike and repaired the bike free of charge. This is above a beyond what we needed to do. However we feel this is important particularly as we concentrate on bikes selling between £999 and £2000+.
 
D

Deleted member 4366

Guest
You can't make an argument on whether Kudos Bikes are fit for purpose. If they weren't this forum would be inundated with members asking about why their motors had stopped. In the three years I've been on this forum I can't remember anybody complaining about their motor on any bike over-heating even though we know it's possible,other than OP, so my first reaction would be to be suspicious of the circumstances, regardless of what's written in Ts and Cs It's the Same with the FETs in the controller. It's possible to blow them by misuse or other user errors, but that's very rare too, and there were suspicious circumstances around those that were reported.
 

BrianC

Finding my (electric) wheels
Sep 8, 2013
23
0
You can't make an argument on whether Kudos Bikes are fit for purpose. If they weren't this forum would be inundated with members asking about why their motors had stopped. In the three years I've been on this forum I can't remember anybody complaining about their motor on any bike over-heating even though we know it's possible,other than OP, so my first reaction would be to be suspicious of the circumstances, regardless of what's written in Ts and Cs It's the Same with the FETs in the controller. It's possible to blow them by misuse or other user errors, but that's very rare too, and there were suspicious circumstances around those that were reported.
You sound like Dave Elderfield of Kudos.I am an apprentice trained mechanical engineer, rare these days, and I know my wife did nothing to overheat the motor. There was no discussion with Kudos, just a straight rejection and a reference to the T and Cs. When I told him the handlebar stem had changed from black to bronze his reply was that it had been out in the sun!,no remedy offered.
Who do you work for ? Kudos?
 

103Alex1

Esteemed Pedelecer
Sep 29, 2012
2,228
67
To give you an idea of how we approach warranty issues we had a customer who was not the orginal owner of a bike and repaired the bike free of charge. This is above a beyond what we needed to do.
... and so you should. A warranty should attach to a product and not be a personal thing. After all, if you go into Tesco with a faulty radio and the receipt they are not going to deny you an exchange if you don't have the card originally used for purchase are they ?

Similarly, a car with a 10 year warranty will still carry that warranty on a resale. What is so different about bikes that retailers feel they can dodge out of warranties if buyers sell them on inside the warranty period ?
 

GaRRy

Esteemed Pedelecer
May 18, 2012
1,019
3
Tamworth
... and so you should. A warranty should attach to a product and not be a personal thing. After all, if you go into Tesco with a faulty radio and the receipt they are not going to deny you an exchange if you don't have the card originally used for purchase are they ?

Similarly, a car with a 10 year warranty will still carry that warranty on a resale. What is so different about bikes that retailers feel they can dodge out of warranties if buyers sell them on inside the warranty period ?
Don't be so sure about the car warranty. Vauxhalls "lifetime" warrantee is not transferable and I'm pretty certain it's not the only one.
 

103Alex1

Esteemed Pedelecer
Sep 29, 2012
2,228
67
I'm talking more about 1-2 year warranties on bikes and warranties like on a BMW. No reason at all these should not attach to the product with the original purchase receipt. If they don't the law wants changing to eliminate unfair practice from unscrupulous manufacturers and retailers. The original purchaser has paid to have a warranty period which the manufacturer is bound to uphold. Simply transferring ownership of the product is not a valid reason for the manufacturer being released from their warranty obligations.
 

Yamdude

Esteemed Pedelecer
Sep 20, 2013
842
639
Somerset
I would have assumed that warranties on ebikes are transferable..... but reading this it seems they are not.
If I buy a second hand motorcycle thats under two years old, the warranty transfers to me. I don't see why it should be any different with an electric bike, they are both motorised vehicles.
 

103Alex1

Esteemed Pedelecer
Sep 29, 2012
2,228
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It's definitely something I will be checking with 50cycles regarding Kalkhoffs if I see them at the NEC for starters !
 

trex

Esteemed Pedelecer
May 15, 2011
7,703
2,671
In law, suppliers do not have to give you a 12-month warranty at all.
Warranties are insurance policies against failures, where the 'fit for purpose' criterion cannot be used against the supplier (eg stem cap bronzes in the sun).
As such, warranties are limited to specific clauses that the supplier set out at the time of the purchase. It is not transferrable unless the supplier agrees to let you pass it on.
Read the small prints before parting with your cash.
 
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Yamdude

Esteemed Pedelecer
Sep 20, 2013
842
639
Somerset
Don't be so sure about the car warranty. Vauxhalls "lifetime" warrantee is not transferable and I'm pretty certain it's not the only one.
The lifetime warranty, is the standard 2 or 3 yr warranty plus extended warranty. If you were to sell that Vauxhall when it was only a yr old, the new owner would get the remainder of the standard warranty.
These lifetime warranties are different to standard warranties in that there is conditions involved like having to have main dealer servicing. So they know they will get ongoing business from you with high priced main dealer servicing.
With a standard warranty on a car or motorcycle, you can have your vehicle serviced anywhere as long as original parts are used.
 
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Electrifying Cycles

Esteemed Pedelecer
Jun 4, 2011
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176
... and so you should. A warranty should attach to a product and not be a personal thing. After all, if you go into Tesco with a faulty radio and the receipt they are not going to deny you an exchange if you don't have the card originally used for purchase are they ?

Similarly, a car with a 10 year warranty will still carry that warranty on a resale. What is so different about bikes that retailers feel they can dodge out of warranties if buyers sell them on inside the warranty period ?
Totally agree Alex but often not the case. I would welcome the e bike market moving along similar lines particularly when people use their bikes to commute or like cars. You want problems sorted asap. My fellow Director has worked in car industry for more than 20 years and we do think some things need to change so that service can be improved. We are always welcome feedback ;)
 
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