petition to increase the speed limit

GSV3MiaC

Pedelecer
Jun 6, 2020
70
37
Interesting idea here @GSV3MiaC. I currently can't afford to buy a house any closer to my work that the one I've bought (18 miles away). I'd love it if the government would make up the difference!
The other solution is to change your place of work to match where you can afford to live. If enough people decline to commute, employers may have to revisit where they set up shop. Yes, I know I am only half serious.

P. S. it is your employer, not your government, who should foot the bill.
 

youngoldbloke

Pedelecer
Apr 27, 2018
64
25
72
South West
In an ideal world, 20mph assistance cut-off level for e-ROAD bikes. retain 15.5mph assistance cut-off level for 'utility' e-bikes. Remember it's assistance cut-off level being discussed not maximum speed or average speed. Any e-bike can be propelled at speeds well above the assistance cut-off speed if you have the required fitness and leg power. Most riders of e-road bikes will already spend much of their time above that cut-off speed anyway.
 
  • Like
Reactions: gsm.terra

Nealh

Esteemed Pedelecer
Aug 7, 2014
11,528
4,507
57
West Sx RH
Around the merry go round nearly every one goes .
The speed limit is set, it is practically a world wide max excepted assistance speed for powered cycles
Your average cyclist barely hits 15.5mph barring the sport riders on an unpowered bike. Having different limits for pedelecs is having a double standard, just to add complications to the legislation.
Faster bikes are already catered for if not happy buy a speed pedelec and register it if you want to be legal.
 

TedG

Esteemed Pedelecer
Aug 8, 2017
391
450
70
Lisburn Co Antrim Northern Ireland UK
Around the merry go round nearly every one goes .
The speed limit is set, it is practically a world wide max excepted assistance speed for powered cycles
Your average cyclist barely hits 15.5mph barring the sport riders on an unpowered bike. Having different limits for pedelecs is having a double standard, just to add complications to the legislation.
Faster bikes are already catered for if not happy buy a speed pedelec and register it if you want to be legal.
Agreed.
Again forgive me for being boring but may I remind (some of) you guys the nightmare for over 30 months we had with a government intent on labelling ebikes as mopeds.
Give them half a chance and rock the boat if you dare.:eek:
 
Last edited:

Nealh

Esteemed Pedelecer
Aug 7, 2014
11,528
4,507
57
West Sx RH
Buy a kit that allows you to peddle well beyond the motor assistance.
My 14.5/15kg Pinnacle Arkose inc 2.5kg friction drive has a legal tamperproof 25kmh cut off, no display what so ever and is a simple Reention Bottle battery with controller base, drive unit and a rear sprocket led pedal sensor to actuate the motor.
Above the cut off the motor is easy to toot a long on last night on way home from work 24.5 mph unassisted, with speed comes effort and sweat you have to work for the speed and not expect an easy moped ride.
None of my hub motors offer the same and are certainly a lot harder to get the speed out of them unassisted.
 
Last edited:
  • Agree
  • Informative
Reactions: flecc and TedG

flecc

Member
Oct 25, 2006
46,163
22,869
Those reading this thread will have seen the every large number of reasons why I've said the pedelec assist speed law will not and cannot change, despite which I also posted that I hadn't even begun to list all the reasons.

So now I'm covering the implications of what Nealh and I have posted about the law being international. Across Europe and far beyond it has to be since transport crosses borders all the time and we in th UK are totally dependant on that. Without it we starve.

But of course it's not just the vast numbers of trucks, it's the millions of cars on business or crossing borders on th way to work or holidays.

And it's all the pedelecs. We have members who take their caravans and motor caravans on holiday throughout Europe, carrying their pedelecs with them. We have some members with homes at each end in France Spain and Italy who use their pedelecs at both ends. We even have one member at least who crosses the channel and pedelec tours in France and the Low Countries.

Of course they all need to know that their pedelecs are legal to use over there, the reason why they were harmonised in the first place. That's especially since many of the continental police are far more aware of pedelec law and stricter than ours are due to the very much larger numbers of pedelecs in use there.

So for those of you who want to make our laws different, be aware that you are up against the millions of us who go into Europe. The 3.5 million EU citizens who come here regularly and enrich us also have an influence on our governance.

Finally for those of you like Gavin who want Britain to make the law, you'd better think again. In Europe we led with e-bikes post war in the 1970s and we set the laws then.

Our government set the assist speed limit at 12 mph and the maximum power at 200 watts.

Because we joined the EU and had to harmonise by treaty agreement, the government reluctantly changed the assist speed limit to 15 mph in 1983, still a touch short of the EU's, but stubbornly kept to 200 watts. It wasn't until April 2015 that we finally aligned with the full 15.5 mph assist and 250 watts of power that the EU permitted.

For 45 years we'd been sold short on both by our safety obsessed nanny state governments, and what is worse, we are still being sold short! In 1988, having realised they were permitting anyone to ride with a terrifying 200 watts of power, they slapped on a minimum age of 14 to ride a pedelec, the only country in the EU/EEA to do so, so our youngsters can't enjoy what their youngsters can and do.

So if you really want the UK government to set their own pedelec laws, go ahead.

As I posted earlier, be careful what you wish for, it may turn out not to your liking.
.
 
Last edited:

Nealh

Esteemed Pedelecer
Aug 7, 2014
11,528
4,507
57
West Sx RH
The harmonisation of pedelec standards it works across the world esp in the EU where UK users are more likely to take their bikes, even Aus/NZ have the same laws and they are quite hot on lawlessness.
The only place really in the evolved world where speed and power differs is the USA and over there it is a bit messy.
If folks want faster assistance just get on with it keep your trap shut and don't keep bleating on about it and accept any consequences that occur.
Look at SW he is quite prolific with his views on here and hasn't done any bird or had his bike taken away.
As said there is a legal fast ebike route follow it and be happy.
 

youngoldbloke

Pedelecer
Apr 27, 2018
64
25
72
South West
Around the merry go round nearly every one goes .
The speed limit is set, it is practically a world wide max excepted assistance speed for powered cycles
Your average cyclist barely hits 15.5mph barring the sport riders on an unpowered bike. Having different limits for pedelecs is having a double standard, just to add complications to the legislation.
Faster bikes are already catered for if not happy buy a speed pedelec and register it if you want to be legal.
I did say 'In an ideal world' - my ideal world. My personal, selfish opinion. I don't expect the law to be changed. The last ineptly worded petition got nowhere and I expect this one to follow the same route. If it weren't for health issues I wouldn't be riding an e-bike. I would be riding an unassisted road-bike as I had done for 60 years or so. I'm not a utility cyclist. It's always been recreational, club, sports cycling for me. I'm not an e-bike evangelist, heavy utility e-bikes hold very little appeal for me. If lighter e-road bikes hadn't been introduced my cycling days would be over. That's where I'm coming from. I don't intend to stay on the merry go round this time, just chip in with my point of view occasionally.
 
  • Like
Reactions: flecc

jimriley

Pedelecer
Jun 17, 2020
81
56
OOPS - sorry, I read that as non-electric bikes INCLUDED! ;)

I agree with all of your other suggestions but that one would be a complete pain for me! I am not super-fit but was doing 22 mph on a flat road the other night without busting a gut (I had a tailwind) and then 35 mph on a descent alternating freewheeling with braking. To stick to 20 mph I would have to brake on the downhill part of every little undulation in the road and brake hard all the way down some of the local descents.

Being limited to 20 mph down descents like this one (on the A58 to Littleborough) would be very annoying and wear my brakes out quickly...

View attachment 37404
Can almost see my house on that pic, just a bit to the right! You are only limited to 15.5mph when e assisted, not when freewheeling downhill. If you want a bit of adventure next time, take the old road down, just on the right of the stone.
On a very clear day you can see the cathedrals in Liverpool and the Welsh hills.
 
  • Informative
  • Like
Reactions: ColinJTod and flecc

flecc

Member
Oct 25, 2006
46,163
22,869
I did say 'In an ideal world' - my ideal world. My personal, selfish opinion. I don't expect the law to be changed. The last ineptly worded petition got nowhere and I expect this one to follow the same route. If it weren't for health issues I wouldn't be riding an e-bike. I would be riding an unassisted road-bike as I had done for 60 years or so. I'm not a utility cyclist. It's always been recreational, club, sports cycling for me. I'm not an e-bike evangelist, heavy utility e-bikes hold very little appeal for me. If lighter e-road bikes hadn't been introduced my cycling days would be over. That's where I'm coming from. I don't intend to stay on the merry go round this time, just chip in with my point of view occasionally.
This is the big problem with e-biking in the UK. We have a very small market buying between 20,000 and 50,000 a year but so many different types of e-biker that it leaves us with a very fragmented voice and views.

In The Netherlands with just over a quarter of our population they buy well over a third of a million a year, in Germany nearly a million a year. They are virtually all utility cyclists meaning they have one very big voice indeed, well up to dominating not only their national governments but the EU Parliament, EU Commission and Council of Europe too.
.
 

ColinJTod

Pedelecer
Jul 21, 2020
32
24
Todmorden
Can almost see my house on that pic, just a bit to the right! You are only limited to 15.5mph when e assisted, not when freewheeling downhill. If you want a bit of adventure next time, take the old road down, just on the right of the stone.
On a very clear day you can see the cathedrals in Liverpool and the Welsh hills.
I know what the law is now, but vfr400 was suggesting a change to a 20 mph limit whether assisted or not. I misread his post and thought he was suggesting that ALL bicycles should have a 20 mph limit at ALL times!

I hadn't really thought what I was looking at in the far distance. Hollingworth Lake is obvious near the bottom of the hill, and Rochdale, Manchester and Bolton a bit further off. I might take my binoculars up there some time to see if I can spot Liverpool and Wales!
 
  • Like
Reactions: jimriley

Swizz

Pedelecer
Oct 1, 2017
156
107
44
Sk14
Agreed. The point I was making regarding tax/ VED is that by not paying it, cyclists (and horse riders) are viewed as freeloaders by the average road user.

This in turn fuels the belief that they are second-class road users who must stay out of the way of the "proper" vehicles.
Cyclist & Nissan Leaf owner here, high level freeloader!
 
  • Like
Reactions: flecc

georgehenry

Esteemed Pedelecer
Nov 7, 2015
866
824
Surrey
Ford Fusion owner diesel 2009, no emissions equipment, cost very little second hand, under £2000, 60mpg, £30 to tax, heated front screen, parking sensors, air con, 4 doors, good stereo, and because I ride an electric bike everywhere I last filled it with fuel before the lock down.

The children and I made a trip in it to Devon and back just before lock down. Filled it with fuel before we set of and still had plenty left when we got home. No range anxiety. About 450 miles driven.

I bought this car for my children to learn to drive in and drive but the running costs so far have been astonishingly low.
 
  • Like
Reactions: flecc and Swizz

RossG

Esteemed Pedelecer
Feb 12, 2019
1,169
1,049
Just to rock the boat a bit, I have no doubt the law regarding ebike speed will change but it will probably take 10 years to do so. Remember the long running CB Radio saga, enthusiasts dabbled with it for years in the UK illegally until eventually the Gov relented and allowed it's use. Trouble was they pulled a fast one and insisted all equipment had to have a 27/81 badge to be legit so all the gear people had been using stayed illegal.
That law had it's anomalies as I being a communications engineer & qualified radio operator could and did own such radio equ. which I could legally convert for other frequencies.
The CB fraternity still bellyached because they couldn't use the same radio channels as Europe, and eventually the Gov caved in yet again and allowed it .. with caveats naturally.
My point is if pressure carries on long enough and hard enough there will be changes but I'd guess only minor, an increase to 18 mph maybe just to make everyone grateful for what we have.
 

Nealh

Esteemed Pedelecer
Aug 7, 2014
11,528
4,507
57
West Sx RH
Oh dear, why can't people just accept the regs as they are and follow practically a world wide set of laws as to there control.
The goal posts are set out why try to keep moving them ?
 

RossG

Esteemed Pedelecer
Feb 12, 2019
1,169
1,049
They wont though Neal, if they made the speed limit 100mph as a nice round figure many would still do 5-10 mph over the top then campaign for an increase because 'everybody' does a bit over the top anyway just like now.
Wait till the scooter fiends start asking for a 30mph limit then begin fitting bigger motors & 52v batteries, it's bound to happen the Dragon's been woken up :(
 

flecc

Member
Oct 25, 2006
46,163
22,869
My point is if pressure carries on long enough and hard enough there will be changes but I'd guess only minor, an increase to 18 mph maybe just to make everyone grateful for what we have.
Not even that Ross. The 25kph / 15.5 mph assist limit is an international standard allowing widespread travel carrying pedelecs or riding across borders.

No government will wreck that widely enjoyed benefit just for 3 mph, it would be too stupid for words, ESPECIALLY as I keep repeating, there's the S class pedelecs already allowing 45 kph / 28 mph.

While that already exists the DfT won't even look at this pedelec speed increase issue.
.
 

Swizz

Pedelecer
Oct 1, 2017
156
107
44
Sk14
Ford Fusion owner diesel 2009, no emissions equipment, cost very little second hand, under £2000, 60mpg, £30 to tax, heated front screen, parking sensors, air con, 4 doors, good stereo, and because I ride an electric bike everywhere I last filled it with fuel before the lock down.

The children and I made a trip in it to Devon and back just before lock down. Filled it with fuel before we set of and still had plenty left when we got home. No range anxiety. About 450 miles driven.

I bought this car for my children to learn to drive in and drive but the running costs so far have been astonishingly low.
I get where you are coming from kinda. I had a Honda Civic Aerotech for 8 years and thought it was a really good car.
Re 'Range Anxiety' though. I have a 30+ mile commute and we have family holidayed 130+ miles from home. My Leaf is the old 24kw one...the smallest battery size...and range anxiety isn't 'a thing' for me at all. It's just an aspect of the car I work with along with the silence & no whiffy exhaust! It has so far done 33k miles on its original tyres and the brakes are almost unused.
The waters lovely :)
 
  • Agree
Reactions: flecc

flecc

Member
Oct 25, 2006
46,163
22,869
Ford Fusion owner diesel 2009, no emissions equipment, cost very little second hand, under £2000, 60mpg, £30 to tax, heated front screen, parking sensors, air con, 4 doors, good stereo, and because I ride an electric bike everywhere I last filled it with fuel before the lock down.

The children and I made a trip in it to Devon and back just before lock down. Filled it with fuel before we set of and still had plenty left when we got home. No range anxiety. About 450 miles driven.

I bought this car for my children to learn to drive in and drive but the running costs so far have been astonishingly low.
And you can carry on for another 15 to 35 years! 15 years until buying an i.c. c ar is banned, then a further 20 years to wear out the last ones bought before the government takes all i.c. cars off the road.

That's assuming you can still find fuel stations, they're already down to less than half there once were and well outnumbered by e-car charging points. You'll be seeing more and more of these as time goes by:

Instavolt, A47 Norfolk.jpg
 
  • Like
Reactions: Swizz